Is circumcision the kiss of death or source of life?

Toward Tradition ^ | 2/21/2005 | Samuel Silver

[Babwa]

The national news media is abuzz with a story about the possible link between the tragic death of an infant Jewish boy from herpes and his circumcision. At the same time, the media has not fully reported on the fact that circumcision could save millions of lives from the scourge of AIDS.

The problem is that circumcision is in the Bible, which makes it a serious violation of the religion practiced by the majority in academia and the mainstream media - secular fundamentalism. They have stood by while millions died and continue to die. How differently they value human life than Judaism and the Judeo-Christian tradition.

[Tabi Katz]

Agreed! With all due respect to tradition, I'm glad my nephew's bris was of the modern variety.

[Age of Reason]

circumcision could save millions of lives from the scourge of AIDS.

I'll take my chances intact.

[olde north church]

Actually, it's unclear. That's why doctors recommend people with Genital Herpes always use condoms, even married people, regardless of presence of active sores.
Another form of Herpes would be smallpox.

[Babwa]

First there is no evidence yet that he had herpes. He took blood tests, but no confirmation one way or the other.

In addition, the herpes they are talking about is "type 1" which is the type that give you cold sores or blisters. Most people have the virus in there system, but is is only contagious during an active episode. That is why there is a very good chance, the baby got the virus some other way.

[Tabi Katz]

I didn't mean to wrongly condemn the guy if the babies were infected another way. Still, in this day and age, I'm not real comfortable with the practice, especially since it's not clear that it's halachically mandated.

[Gondring]

That site was last updated in 1999. Much evidence has come out since then that shows how beneficial it is to leave the protective foreskin intact (as well as the benefits for marital relations... :-)

Additionally, it has been discovered that babies who were circumcised are much more sensitive and fearful of pain of later vaccinations.

How about letting the kids choose for themselves when they get older whether they want to mutilate their bodies or not?

[paleocon patriarch]

In the current New York case, the mohel used a traditional, but rare, technique of metzitzah b’peh, with which even many observant Jews are not familiar. Under Jewish law, all males are circumcised (bris milah) on the eighth day after birth as a sign of the covenant between God and the Jewish people. It is a three step process.
1. The first step is the best known. It is called chituch or milah, and is the cutting off of the outer foreskin. (The removed foreskin is buried in the ground, unlike the sacrilegious and vulgar treatment presented in the current movie sequel to Meet the Parents.)
2. The second step is called periah, and requires the cutting and folding back of the very thin mucous membrane beneath the outer foreskin, sometimes referred to as the inner foreskin.
3. The final step is metzitzah, where excess blood from the circumcision is drawn off prior to applying a bandage. The controversy at hand is how this drawing is performed.

Metzitzah b’peh is a specific form of metzitzah where the mohel uses his mouth to draw off the excess blood. B’peh is translated as "in the mouth." Before you jump to the wrong conclusion and contrary to the ridiculous and baseless attacks by enemies of circumcision, there are no hidden sexual undertones or convoluted theories of barbaric blood-sucking associated with this very quick and otherwise unappealing procedure or any other aspect of Judaism.

Yowza!!!!!!

[newzjunkey]

Circumcision is perverse. A mutilation of a boys genitals, many times at the command of his mother, often before he can even speak his first word.

It's a true sickness in a country where "reproductive" and "privacy" rights trump even a parental notification for surgery as with abortion.

The so-called "hygiene benefits" have been debunked. A properly washed uncircumcised penis is plenty hygienic.

The recent claims about AIDS being harder to spread due to circumcision is a non-sequitur. If neither partner has AIDS, if condoms are used, if abstinence is practiced... It's harder to beat your wife if you have no arms, that doesn't mean we remove them at birth. The circumcision permanently alters the sensations because of the removal of tissue and nerve endings, it can cause serious damage if not done with great skill.

These days it's a cosmetic thing for vain men, for their sexually revolutionized women. But it's also a means of control. The Jewish practice comes from the ancient notion that a circumcised penis will help keep a man inside his marriage. That a boy will grow up easier to control the vestiges of his wayward genetic inclinations. In this case, children contracted herpes, one even died because of Jewish practice where drawing of blood is required. Often a straw is sucked on to produce the blood but there is also a practice where the mouth is used directly.

It's heinous perversion masked as religious tradition.

We must fight to end this barbaric practice done to our male offspring. It is entirely unnecessary, deemed as such by modern medicine with a $400-500 price tag, for the overwhelming majority. Only those who find their foreskin is not developing sufficiently for it to be safely and comfortably retracted during adolescence need to have it addressed, perhaps by surgical means to restore proper function.

[cajungirl]

I beg to differ. Some reasonable people do not think Circumcision is necessary or beneficial and not all are from fringe groups. There has been a move in the last ten years not to circumcize. The American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend routine circumcision. Some Jews don't recommend or do it. Whether it is any more protective than routine hygiene is debateable.

I am not going to engage in an argument about this, just wanted to point out that people differ, reasonable people differ.

[newzjunkey]

The male body was not designed to be circumcised. Neither by evolution nor by God. It was created to have a foreskin.

You're efforts to slander "anti-circumcision" lobbyists against this Judeo-based barbarism is repugnant. Circumcision is a scandalous practice no free, thinking, sovereign human being with rights to life and liberty, endowed by his Creator, should accept nor practice on his sons.

[PA Engineer]

You're efforts to slander "anti-circumcision" lobbyists against this Judeo-based barbarism is repugnant. Circumcision is a scandalous practice no free, thinking, sovereign human being with rights to life and liberty, endowed by his Creator, should accept nor practice on his sons.

The only slander I see here is from you against the Jews. You have issues.

[Gondring]

Exactly!

And even with the presence of HIV, the risk of transmission is increased with circumcision. From HIV and circumcision: new factors to consider (SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED INFECTIONS, Volume 79: Pages 495-496, December 2003.) (Please see original for source citations):

Circumcision has some little known effects that may promote rather than deter HIV infection. The human foreskin has physiological functions designed to protect the human body from infection. The sub-preputial moisture contains lysozyme10—an enzyme that attacks HIV.¹¹ Circumcision destroys this natural protection.

Circumcision removes erogenous tissue,¹² desensitises the penis,¹³ changes sexual behaviour, and makes males more likely to engage in unsafe sex practices.¹⁴ Circumcised males, therefore, are less willing to use additionally desensitising condoms.⁵

Male circumcision produces hardened scar tissue that encircles the shaft of the penis. The scar scrapes the inside of the partner’s vagina during coitus and, therefore, may enhance the transmission/reception of HIV. A programme of mass circumcision would expose African males to unsafe genital cutting,⁴ would destroy the natural protection of the foreskin,¹⁰ would not be effective against iatrogenic unsafe health care,⁴ would divert scarce medical and social resources from measures of proved effectiveness,⁵ and, therefore, is likely to increase the transmission of HIV.⁵

The proportion of HIV infection attributable to heterosexual intercourse has been placed at 90%.⁹ Gissellquist and Potterat now estimate the proportion attributable to heterosexual intercourse at only about 30%⁸ —only a one third of the previous estimate. [my emphases]

The groups trying to blame intact foreskins for the AIDS problems of Africa are ignoring science to advance their own leftist agenda. Those who piggyback on them to further their goal of continuing infant mutilation are just as bad--the same category as those who make millions from abortions (mercenary "medical" practicioners).

[MontanaBeth]

A mutilation of a boys genitals, many times at the command of his mother, often before he can even speak his first word.

I watched my first son's circumcision and was so appalled by this barbaric practice that I became an vocal anti circumcision advocate. When my first Grandson was born my daughter was against him being circumcised but her husband overruled her. I insisted that he be in the room while his son was circumcised. My second Grandson is intact as made by God. Parents should watch to see the horrible pain they inflict upon hours old babies. This is a barbaric practice that should be relegated to medical history books for future generations to shake their heads over.

[Mad Mammoth]

The male body was not designed to be circumcised. Neither by evolution nor by God. It was created to have a foreskin.

Your efforts to slander "anti-circumcision" lobbyists against this Judeo-based barbarism is repugnant. Circumcision is a scandalous practice no free, thinking, sovereign human being with rights to life and liberty, endowed by his Creator, should accept nor practice on his sons.

Well said.

The fact is, the practice of circumcision is one based upon ancient religious custom, specifically within Jewish culture, based upon Biblical records of a pact between God and the Jewish Patriarch, Abraham.

It is not medically necessary to be circumcised, it is only necessary for the (ahem) 'owner of the equipment' to keep everything clean and sanitary. Anyone suggesting otherwise is deluding themselves, and attempting to delude others.

[Vinnie]

A little over the top are we?
Repugnant, scandalous, heinous perversion

Gimme a break

[newzjunkey]

You BELIEVE it's healthier because you've been brainwashed into believe it is. You probably saw circumcised porn stars and figured women preferred that look or that you had been circumcised or most of your gym classmates had been when the big lie about circumcision's hygiene benefits was the cultural myth and it still is. In fact, it's an elective procedure ($400-$500) like having your wife's breasts augmented.

You practice standard 21st century American hygiene, right? You've passed that knowledge to your sons, yes? Then they get no benefit from circumcision.

They do get a loss of sensation, potential for the glans drying out and so forth. You put them at risk for sheer vanity; they are still at risk for sexually transmitted and urinary tract infections.

How dare you make this life altering decision involving their most personal and private parts? The decision should be left to them when they are old enough, mature enough to electively, responsibly decide to have this irreversible cosmetic procedure performed. Informed consent about their own bodies, their very own foreskins. What's wrong with leaving them as God or nature intended?

[KC_for_Freedom]

Circumcision is perverse. A mutilation of a boys genitals, many times at the command of his mother, often before he can even speak his first word.

I am not going to argue with either of you. Circumcision is a ceremony performed on the 8th day. Few children can speak a work by this date. If it seems perverse of unnecessary for you, don't do it, and insist that it not be done to your children. As for me and my religion, we will practice it. (Our Mohel was a surgeon from a local hospital. He brought his equipment to our home for the ceremony. He was paid $100 as a charity, he would not have accepted a fee for this as he considered it a Mitzvah, (a gift). No mouth contact, it is considered barbaric to modern Jews, hospital antiseptic procedures please.

[safisoft]

It's heinous perversion masked as religious tradition.

It is not a tradition, it is a biblical command. I'll take the commands of G-d against human ignorance and such wicked babblings any day. It isn't about hygiene - it is about obedience to the Creator, and your comments only reveal your ignorance of Scripture.

Genesis 17:9-11: And God said to Abraham: 'As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.'

Luke 2:20-21: Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told them. And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, His name was called Y'shua [Jesus], the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.

As you can see, the 'practice' is not heinous, it is a mark of a follower of the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Christians as well can see that Y'shua [Jesus] was circumcised.

It is typically pagan to renounce the biblically-mandated things of Scripture, all the while parading idolatrous and wicked perversions as 'right and normal'. Like the ancient Greeks who had similar 'issues' that you have - and all the while practiced all manner of perversions. I'll take the faithful practice against your Greek-style paganism.

[Alouette]

My son just called to let me know that I have a new grandson.

The Bris will take place next week.

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel ping list.

WARNING: This is a high volume ping list

[safisoft]

My son just called to let me know that I have a new grandson. The Bris will take place next week.

Baruch HaShem!