Travel: Smokers called Animals In A Zoo

Minnesotans Against Smoking Bans ^ | 1-8-05 | Robert Hayes Halfpenny

[SheLion]

I am surprised Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson didn’t refer to the smokers as swine in a pig sty. Isn’t that, after all one of the one of the first images that comes to mind when think of a pen?  Before I am offended by “da mayor” I would have to be offended by the reference to the term smoking pens. In a city and state  that was founded by a group of people so seriously reviled for their own beliefs in years past, you would think they would be among the first to take a “live and let live” attitude about the behavior and choices of others. Clearly the past lessons learned about intolerance by the Mormons must now have been forgotten.

Only 88 airports nationwide is hardly a mandate to make one’s own airport smoke free. Furthermore if these “smoking kiosks” are eliminated it will only cause people to find other places to smoke. Delta Airlines is correct in standing behind the rights of the smokers.  Perhaps they have taken note that incidence of “air rage” only became prevalent AFTER smoking was banned on aircraft. It should also be noted that since the ban, they no longer use fresh air to ventilate the planes; instead, they just run the air through a filtrations system which in an enclosed environment further exacerbates the problem.

Mayor Anderson’s pompous arrogance in stating that the ban will help smokers to “break the habit” is outrageous. It is not his job to be neither a social engineer nor the arbiter of personal choices. I do know however, that as long as Salt Lake City and Utah continue down this Draconian path of heavy handed intolerance, I will avoid their state in very way possible. I will not travel to it, I will not travel thru it, and I will not support my company scheduling a convention there.

BANS ARE BAD! Read it again, BANS ARE BAD! Banning blacks from white facilities---BAD! Banning books---BAD! Banning Beer---Bad! If the people of Utah agree that these bans are bad, then they must also agree that banning smoking is also BAD! I would certainly hope at this juncture they are starting to realize that any action, that would favor a smoking ban of any type, will only create far more harm than good. IN all fairness I should note their may be one kind of good ban. That of course would be banning Mayor Anderson from further political office at the next election.   

[cake_crumb]

You hate smoke. Fine. I'm sure you do not own anything with an internal combustion engine in order to keep your lungs clean.

How's about personal responsibility, instead of another ban? I'm old. I grew up in that era where you learned politeness via Emily Post. I don't smoke in areas where large numbers of people are NOT smoking. Why? It's impolite, that's why. It's easy for a non-self absorbed individual to observe such an obvious bit of general conduct. Like most people my age, gracious behavior became ingrained at an early age and there are large numbers of things I don't NEED laws telling me not to do. I naturally try to avoid impolite behavior.

Polite societies don't need to regulate every aspect of human behavior. Take away the foundation of that polite society and then your government has the excuse to regulate everything you do and say. Feminazis started destroying our polite society by insisting women are the better man, and they damned near won....they may yet. This was the beginning of the era when the cheap subdtitute for politeness, political correctness, was imposed upon us to replace our polite society.

For me, I've never made a secret of preferring men who open doors for me and yes, I DO embarrass those "better men" who destroyed their own chances of personal health (AIDS anyone?) happiness in their efforts to expand their own chances of personal happiness.

Years ago, in our former, polite society, there were simply places that smokers would never have dreamed of smoking. It would have been Just Not Done, because it's impolite.

[small_l_libertarian]

It should also be noted that since the ban, they no longer use fresh air to ventilate the planes; instead, they just run the air through a filtrations system which in an enclosed environment further exacerbates the problem.

And it does wonders for helping to spread germs and air borne diseases.

I know - I get so frustrated because I have to fly about 20 times a year for work. Almost every single time I fly, I catch something - a cold, stomach bug, etc. Every time I go to work, I am sick. Every time I get home from working, I am sick.

I know it is from the planes - I work from my house except when I have to travel to events, so am rarely exposed to other peoples' germs except when I travel.

[WildTurkey]

(correction)

Apparently this guy thinks he can lie with impunity. If he lies here, what credibility is to be given to the rest of his article. The Boeing 737 has exchange rates on the order of about 5 minutes. That means that every five minutes the cabin air is completely replaced. I think the figure for the incoming fresh air is about 25 cubic feet per second.

[SheLion]

Just a question, but what if someone (or organization) were to approach them about funding a lobby, quietly?

Well, that has been tried.  But those of us that work hard behind the scenes to fight the control, restrictions, bans and taxes on cigarettes are always accused of working 'for' Big Tobacco.  And none of us are.  I have never seen a red cent from Big T, and I don't plan on starting now.

You know what?  Big T fell on their knees in front of the Attorney General's and by doing so, Big T really stuck it to the smokers.

But it's not over yet.

[RandallFlagg]

But, please, be a little tolerant, OK?

HAA! Ain't gonna happen. We smokers are the lepers of America. Hated for the next 50 years.

[Publius6961]

I WISH we had the money to fight them.

That's the irony. We do have it, but the opposition, those doo-gooders, those unemployed ones, count on the fact that we are too busy working and having a life to oppose and defeat them.

25% of the adult population smokes. That comes to roughly 30 million persons.
If just a quarter of those smokers pledged just 1 (one) dollar a month to a legal fund, that's ummmm... $7.5 million a month to carry on legal suits in the most egregiously totalitarian and arbitrary areas. And I mean suits against individuals! No "free" tobacco money there!

I would contribute for the rest of my life just to hear about the look on their faces when they are served with "Civil Rights violations under color of authority". And watch them stumble trying to "explain" their 'junk' science".

I have yet to hear a cogent and rational argument against allowing smoking only restaurants.

[Publius6961]

This is scary. Is this the same (Republican) "Thune" who replaced Tom Daschle?

[Freebird Forever]

I've got the perfect place for their 12 steps!

Be nice now.

A lot of folks are too weak to quit on their own (and desire to do so).

This group provides the support and structure they need.

And the best part is that they do it without taxpayer money !

[SheLion]

But, please, be a little tolerant, OK?

You are beating a dead horse.  The ones that come into our smoking threads are full of anger and hate.  And the way they can get their hate out is to trash and bash decent people who smoke.

They always say that tolerance ends at their (prissy) nose.  They make me want to throw up.

[SheLion]

They probably didn't. Have you ever seen air handling devices serving a group of smokers? Ugly.

Will you stop twisting my words??!!

[nothingnew]

Oh yeah, Skynyrd/Freebird. I think I've heard that song once or twice...heh heh heh.

Treat tobacco the same way as weed. Both either legal or illegal.

OK. What's your thoughts on the subject of legal MJ?...and what if tobacco becomes illegal? What is the nannystate going to TAX to replace the lost "revenue"? My pecker?

FMCDH(BITS)

[SheLion]

Living in Salt Lake City the mayor should know all about zoos. :^)

[Mears]

Try sitting next to a drunk for 11 hours as I did coming from Hawaii a couple of years ago.

Because we were stuck inside the plane for an hour before takoff the flight attendant kept giving out free booze.

Nice huh? I wish they'd eliminate alcohol on flights but I'm not about to make it my life's cause.I'll just deal with it!

[RandallFlagg]

What is the nannystate going to TAX to replace the lost "revenue"? My pecker?

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[Madame Dufarge]

When you were a snot-nosed kid, did you poke sticks through the animals' bars to provoke them?

Did you then accuse the animals of being "irritable?"

[pyx]

That's another thing: cigarettes are legal to purchase but then we are made to feel like low-life criminals for using them.

-=| SOME |=- anti-smokers are far far too zealous in their cause.

However, there is a LACK OF CIVILITY ON BOTH SIDES.

Buying cigarettes is indeed still legal. Smoking in many many places is still legal. There are indeed some real health concerns for many people, both smokers AS WELL AS those with allergies, breathing problems and heart problems. Cigarette smoke is intrusive to those who do not smoke. Inside of a house, over several years of smoking, the tars in cigarette smoke will yellow fabrics in clothing as well as in draperies. There is an odour to cigarette smoke that is ambrosia to some smokers and is terribly sour to some non-smokers.
As I said, there are TWO SIDES to this and CIVILITY and CONSIDERATION on BOTH SIDES would alleviate a LOT of the problems. There are indeed SOME non-smokers who see cigarette smoking as a way to control the lives of others. There are indeed SOME smokers who want to offend as many non-smokers as possible by blowing smoke into others' faces.

A civil attitude and consideration for others could do a lot to create less problems between BOTH groups.

I smoked two packs a day for many many years. I'm not certain how I did it but, more than five years ago, without any illness or close calls, I just quit. Getting over the -=| ANTICIPATED |=- fear of not having a cigarette was the what I seem to recall the biggest hurdle. Anyone who says they want to ignite $1500.00 cash on their front lawn per year, I find a tad difficult to believe. After all, $1500.00 spent on cigarette smoking over ten years is also downpayment on a reasonable bit of vacation property in many locations.

[Mears]

Tjose 12 step programs for smokers have been around for many,many years.Where have you been?

[Fester Chugabrew]

I consider myself to be somewhat an expert in zoo phones. I believe this article was very poorly written.

[WildTurkey]

I think I have just found another irritable smoker. Or is it, another irritable smoker has found me. And SheLion was saying the non-smokers were the ones filled with hate and anger.

[norton]

"And at the same time that tobacco is pulled from the shelves, the till dries up for the state. Instantly."

There 'ya go...
We have a product that remains legal in order to collect taxes (lots of taxes),
that is being forced out of public places because 'it's bad for you',
creating a class of people who are reviled for not breaking any laws.

Clue: when the government(s) make up their collective mind and actually outlaw manufacture and distribution of tobacco products the problem is over.
When tobacco is treated the same as marijuana is today us 'addicts' will at least be able to get sympathy from the liberals and libertarians, the do gooders and legal profession....