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Electoral College Breakdown 2004, June 23rd Update
ECB2004 ^ | 6/23/04

Posted on 06/23/2004 5:22:33 PM PDT by Dales

I Wouldn't Touch It With a 10 Foot Poll

Issues

Let's look at some recent polls that asked issue questions beyond the horserace question. There have been three that I have chosen due to them being relatively similar in timeframe and having many similarly worded questions.

Horserace
Poll Date Universe Bush Kerry
ABC News / Washington Post 6/17-20 1,105 RV for Horserace, 600 adults for issues 44 48
Time / CNN / Harris Interactive 6/12-13 563 RV for Horserace, 1,001 adults for issues 49 42
Fox News / Opinion Dynamics 6/8-9 900 RV 42 42

I think it is safe to say that these results are all comparable. One is favorable in result to Kerry, one is favorable in result to Bush, and one has them tied. There are plenty of actual support levels for the candidates that would have all three polls being within their margin of error (for example, if really the race is 44-44). How do these polls compare on the issue questions?

Terrorism
Poll Phrasing Bush Kerry
ABC News / Washington Post Who do you trust to do a better job handling the U.S. campaign against terrorism? 47 48
Time / CNN / Harris Interactive Which candidate do you think would do a better job on each of the following issues? Handling the war on terrorism? 49 42
Fox News / Opinion Dynamics Which candidate do you think would do a better job on the following issues: The war on terrorism? 47 32

The three polls show remarkably similar numbers for Bush, but Kerry's numbers vary considerably. It is possible this difference can be attributed to the phrasings, although the wording does not make that seem likely. A possibility is that there is a significant number of voters who are not sure and do not have a good feeling for where Kerry is on the issue, and some days they think he would be good and on other days they are less convinced. Another is that it is simply a result of sample differences (although the fact that the widest gap here is in the poll that shows the race tied suggests that is not the case).

Iraq
Poll Phrasing Bush Kerry
ABC News / Washington Post Who do you trust to do a better job handling the situation in Iraq? 50 45
Time / CNN / Harris Interactive Which candidate do you think would do a better job on each of the following issues? Handling the situation in Iraq? 43 46
Fox News / Opinion Dynamics Which candidate do you think would do a better job on the following issues: The situation in Iraq? 43 39

Again, the Opinion Dynamics poll has fewer committing which does suggest they were not pushing as hard for noncommittal respondents to choose. It is harder to see any discernable pattern from these answers either. The poll most favorable in the horserace to Kerry gave Bush the biggest margin on this question, and the poll that was most favorable to Bush on the horserace gave Kerry the biggest margin on this question. This suggests to me that while Iraq dominates the news and clearly is the issue many partisans have rallied around, it is not the issue that is driving the election.

Economy
Poll Phrasing Bush Kerry
ABC News / Washington Post Who do you trust to do a better job handling the economy? 45 50
Time / CNN / Harris Interactive Which candidate do you think would do a better job on each of the following issues? Handling the economy? 38 51
Fox News / Opinion Dynamics Which candidate do you think would do a better job on the following issues: The economy? 41 44

Each favors Kerry, which suggests that the reason he is doing so well against the incumbent is that this issue is still working in his favor. Again the worst result for the President was in the poll that showed the best horserace result for him, which is unusual.

Taxes
Poll Phrasing Bush Kerry
ABC News / Washington Post Who do you trust to do a better job handling taxes? 40 53
Time / CNN / Harris Interactive Which candidate do you think would do a better job on each of the following issues? Taxes? 41 47
Fox News / Opinion Dynamics Which candidate do you think would do a better job on the following issues: Taxes? 41 41

As with the terrorism question, Bush's numbers are steady, while Kerry's are fluctuating. This is normally an issue that Republicans win; the fact that Bush is not is interesting (and troubling for the President's supporters), but so is the fact that Kerry is not winning handily while having the advantage here.

Foreign Policy
Poll Phrasing Bush Kerry
ABC News / Washington Post Who do you trust to do a better job handling international affairs? 43 51
Time / CNN / Harris Interactive Which candidate do you think would do a better job on each of the following issues? Handling foreign policy? 44 46
Fox News / Opinion Dynamics Which candidate do you think would do a better job on the following issues: Foreign Policy? 45 40

Yet again, Bush's numbers are steady while Kerry's fluctuate in a manner that does not correlate completely with his standing in the horserace question.

Health Care
Poll Phrasing Bush Kerry
ABC News / Washington Post Who do you trust to do a better job handling international affairs? 37 58
Time / CNN / Harris Interactive Which candidate do you think would do a better job on each of the following issues? Health care? 33 52
Fox News / Opinion Dynamics Which candidate do you think would do a better job on the following issues: Foreign Policy? 34 48

Again, Bush's numbers are steady while Kerry's flip-flop.

The pattern should be clear that all of these polls show basically the same result for Bush:

Bush
Poll Will vote for Prefer on terror Prefer on Iraq Prefer on economy Prefer on taxes Prefer on foreign policy Prefer on health care
ABC News / Washington Post 44 47 50 45 40 43 37
Time / CNN / Harris Interactive 49 49 43 38 41 44 33
Fox News / Opinion Dynamics 42 47 43 41 41 45 34

The table for Kerry is more interesting:

Kerry
Poll Will vote for Prefer on terror Prefer on Iraq Prefer on economy Prefer on taxes Prefer on foreign policy Prefer on health care
ABC News / Washington Post 48 48 45 50 53 51 58
Time / CNN / Harris Interactive 42 42 46 51 47 46 52
Fox News / Opinion Dynamics 42 32 39 44 41 40 48

There are several possible interpretations to make from this data.

1. There has been a trend towards Kerry on the issues over time. This assumes that the samples are comparable. Favoring this interpretation is that on most issues, Kerry's support has increased from the earliest poll to the latest. A problem with this interpretation is that the horserace question has not shown the same change. Another is that during this timeframe, Rasmussen has polled on the economy question and found no such trend. However, if this interpretation were correct, then it would suggest that Kerry's advertising has been paying off in the underlying sentiment and makes it likely that he will see movement towards him in the horserace question relatively soon.

2. Terrorism is the main issue. This assumes that the differences in the results (especially for Kerry) are primarily due to sample differences and/or methodology differences. Opinion Dynamics asked the issue question only of registered voters while the other two asked it of all adults. In addition, consistently for the Opinion Dynamics poll fewer respondents expressed a preference, suggesting that they pressed people to make a choice less than the other two. Favoring this interpretation is that the correlation to the horserace number is much higher for the terrorism answer than for any other across all three polls.

Issue Correlation to candidate's horserace support
Terrorism 0.61
Iraq 0.10
Economy -0.20
Taxes 0.33
Foreign Policy 0.47
Health Care -0.1

The correlation coefficient ranges from 1 to -1, with a perfect correlation getting a value of 1, no correlation a value of 0, and a perfect inverse correlation a value of -1.

A problem with this interpretation is that the two polls that had the same methodology (but possibly had sample differences) were the two that had the most markedly different horserace results. However, if this interpretation is correct, it would suggest that the primary issue influence on the election is the issue that most favors the President. Working against this interpretation is that earlier polls done this year did not show the same correlations; Bush had substantial leads on the terrorism question but did not have similar leads in the horserace.

3. On the issues, it is all about Kerry. This interpretation suggests that since voter preference for Bush is pretty steady across the three polls, the real variable is how comfortable the voters are with Kerry. Favoring this interpretation is the fact that since voters know less about Kerry than they do about Bush, his preference numbers would be more volatile, which fits the data. This could also explain why, despite having advantages on so many issues, he only leads in a poll that had 8% more Democrats; if voters think they prefer him on the issues but are not sure, they may be hesitating to get on board for the horserace question. Working against this interpretation is the conventional wisdom that Presidential re-election campaigns are referendums of the incumbent.

There could be other interpretations. However, it is still possible to form recommendations for what each candidate should do to enhance his chances if any or all of these interpretations have validity. Each candidate needs to continue to work on defining Kerry before the other defines Kerry; at this point it appears that Kerry is at worst holding his own in this regard and at best winning it but either way it is clear that he is still not in complete focus for many voters. On terrorism, Bush needs to make the case that it is the primary issue, that he has handled it well, and that Kerry cannot be trusted. Kerry's goals on the subject are the opposite. He should stress other issues since he has (currently) an advantage on them, while taking advantage of opportunities to encourage voter doubt about Bush's handling of terrorism to keep that from becoming the dominant issue in the campaign. But more than anything else, the President has to figure out a way to get off the defensive. He can make arguments that things are better than people are perceiving when it comes to the economy and Iraq and other things, but that still would only be focusing voters on matters on which they have demonstrated skepticism and would be opening himself up to constant counterattacks and spin. He needs to come up with bold plans for his next term and sell the voters on them, to neutralize Kerry's developing advantage on the issues.


This Week's Polling Updates Overview

Actually, this would be the last two weeks' polling updates overview. Florida strengthend for Bush on the strength of a SurveyUSA poll showing him up by 7 points. Maryland solidified for Kerry.

The battlegrounds:

State 2000 Result Media Battleground Current Status
New Jersey Gore +16 No Kerry, Lean
Iowa Gore +0.3 Yes Kerry, Lean
Michigan Gore +5 Yes Kerry, Slight
Oregon Gore +0.4 Yes Kerry, Slight
New Hampshire Bush +1 Yes Kerry, Slight
Minnesota Gore +2 Yes Kerry, Slight
Pennsylvania Gore +4 Yes Kerry, Slight
West Virginia Bush +6 Yes Kerry, Slight
Wisconsin Gore +0.2 Yes Tossup
New Mexico Gore +0.06 Yes Tossup
Ohio Bush +4 Yes Tossup
Florida Bush +0.01 Yes Bush, Slight
Arkansas Bush +5 Yes Bush, Slight
Virginia Bush +8 No Bush, Slight
Nevada Bush +4 Yes Bush, Lean
Arizona Bush +6 Yes Bush, Lean
Missouri Bush +3 Yes Bush, Lean

The scoreboard:

ECB Bush 203, Kerry 200 Bush 249, Kerry 226 with tossups
ECB Classic Kerry 236, Bush 214 Bush 285, Kerry 253 with tossups
ECB Classic Sans Zogby Interactive Bush 226, Kerry 204 Bush 271, Kerry 263 with tossups
Calculated National Result Bush 45.2%, Kerry 44.2%

For the trends, the changes in each are as follows:

ECB Bush unchanged, Kerry +10 With tossups: Bush +27, Kerry +5
ECB Classic Bush +35, Kerry +28 With tossups: Bush +73, Kerry -63
ECB Classic Sans Zogby Interactive Bush +48, Kerry +4 With tossups: Bush -9, Kerry +32
Calculated National Result Bush -0.3%, Kerry -0.3%


New Hampshire
Electoral Votes: 4
2000 Result
Bush 48%
Gore 47%

Background: Clinton won twice here, and the second time would have been even without Perot. The first time, he likely would have lost. Johnson won here. Other than that, Republican wins back through Dewey beating Truman. The elder Bush crushed the man who Kerry was Lt. Governor for, Mike Dukakis.

Both last time and this time, New Hampshire started as a slight advantage for Bush. When looking at the other offices, it is hard to understand just why this state is not more firmly in his control. The Republicans hold all the House seats, both Senate seats, control both chambers of the state legislature, and hold all major executive branch offices, while having a 37%-26% registration advantage.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
4/27/03 Franklin Pierce College Link 600 RV 4% Bush 42% Unnamed Democrat 42% Even
9/11/03 American Research Group Link RV 4% Bush 50% Unnamed Democrat 36% Bush +14
10/16/03 Research 2000 Link RV 4% Bush 51% Kerry 39% Bush +12
12/10/03 American Research Group NA RV 4% Bush 50% Unnamed Democrat 38% Bush +12
10/16/03 Research 2000 Link RV 4% Bush 51% Kerry 39% Bush +12
1/20/04 Associated Press Link 600 LV 4% Bush 55% Kerry 40% Bush +15
2/20/04 University of New Hampshire Link 511 LV 4% Bush 38% Kerry 53% Kerry +15
3/18/04 American Research Group Link 463 RV, Nader an option 4.6% Bush 45% Kerry 39% Bush +6
3/18/04 American Research Group Link 463 RV, Nader not an option 4.6% Bush 47% Kerry 45% Bush +2
4/1/04 American Research Group Link 600 LV, Nader an option 4% Bush 48% Kerry 43% Bush +5
4/1/04 American Research Group Link 600 LV, Nader an option 4% Bush 48% Kerry 45% Bush +3
4/22/04 Rasmussen Link 500 LV 4.5% Bush 45% Kerry 47% Kerry +2
4/26/04 University of New Hampshire Link 491 LV 4.4% Bush 45% Kerry 49% Kerry +4
5/24/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 4.3% Bush 39.9% Kerry 49.5% Kerry +9.6
6/6/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 4.4% Bush 44.4% Kerry 48.7% Kerry +4.3
6/9/04 American Research Group Link 600 LV 4% Bush 46% Kerry 46% Push
6/21/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 4.4% Bush 42.9% Kerry 46.2% Bush +3.3%
* Zogby Interactive polls involve a self-selected group of respondants, and as such are highly suspect. They are considered extremely little (if at all) within the ECB.

Punditry: The new poll says Tossup, but it is a step backwards for Bush in an apples to apples comparison to the previous ARG poll, and as such I maintain New Hampshire as having a Slight Advantage for Kerry. ARG did not give a breakdown for the sans Nader question this time, but he already had negligible support so that is a non-issue to me.

Addendum: A frequent visitor to here writes:

I totally don't understand your NH logic. I think it should be a toss up. If you throw out the Zogby polls, there's only 1 poll which shows Kerry with a lead outside the MoE, possible, if +4 counts, and that poll, if I understood you, was one which is questionable. Here you have a poll to counter that one, which doesn't have a questionable methodology, and is 6 weeks more recent. So you're keeping NH as slightly Kerry based sole on one poll which has a flawed methodology and is 6 weeks old.

I also don't understand the relevance of the ARG poll being a push vs. having Bush ahead by 2 or 3 earlier.

Let me expand upon my logic.

When I look at New Hampshire, the previous three polls to the American Research Group poll I just added are a UNH poll showing Kerry leading (but within even a single span of the MoE-- remember to be outside the MoE it has to be a lead beyond two spans), a Rasmussen poll also showing Kerry leading (but well within a single span), and an earlier ARG poll showing Bush ahead.

So with the new ARG poll in, it would show two polls indicating a slight Kerry advantage and one showing a complete deadlock. That would cause me to think immediately "slight advantage for Kerry". Throw in on top of it that previously ARG had Bush up slightly and now has it tied, which means that they are showing a small (perhaps insignificant, perhaps not) move towards Kerry, and that is another indication to me that the slight advantage Kerry designation is the way to go.

But I do want to make things clear on one thing-- when it comes to the difference between the two slight advantage designations and the tossup designation, I do not personally see them as being different in a meaningful sense. It is my belief that all three of these designations mean that the state has a 50% chance of going to either candidate. This is based off of a review of how those designations played out in the 2000 election.


Illinois
Electoral Votes: 21
2000 Result
Gore 55%
Bush 42%

Background: Before Clinton broke through, Republicans had won six straight Presidential contests in Illinois. But Clinton's win against Bush was not because of Perot; he would have carried it without him in the race. And Gore flat out spanked Bush here.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
6/9/03 Chicago Tribune NA RV 3.8% Bush 38% Unnamed Democrat 36% Bush +2
10/20/03 Chicago Tribune NA 700 RV 3.8% Bush 38% Unnamed Democrat 49% Dem +11
1/9/04 Chicago Tribune Link RV 3.8% Bush 40% Unnamed Democrat 48% Dem +8
3/3/04 Research 2000 Link 500 LV 5% Bush 36% Kerry 54% Kerry +18
3/3/04 Rasmussen Link 1500 LV 3% Bush 39% Kerry 52% Kerry +15
3/13/04 Copley News Service/Mason-Dixon Link 625 LV 4% Bush 39% Kerry 47% Kerry +8
5/12/04 Rasmussen Link 500 LV 4.5% Bush 43% Kerry 48% Kerry +5
5/24/04 Market Shares Corp. Link 600 LV 4% Bush 38% Kerry 54% Kerry +16
5/31/04 Rasmussen Link LV 4% Bush 38% Kerry 54% Kerry +16
6/9/04 SurveyUSA Link 742 LV 4% Bush 39% Kerry 52% Kerry +13

Punditry: Still Strong Advantage for Kerry. I am surprised by the Senate portion of this poll which shows Jack Ryan within 11 points of Obama, which is much closer for him than I would have anticipated at this stage of the race. Illinois is another state where more of Kerry's support is anti-Bush (61%) than for him (38%) and again by almost a 2-1 ratio. As I have pointed out several times, this is normally an indication of trouble for a candidate as the only two candidates in recent elections to have more of their support come from those against their opponent were Michael Dukakis and Bob Dole. Given that this was a media-sponsored poll, I am surprised that question was asked at all.


Pennsylvania
Electoral Votes: 21
2000 Result
Gore 51%
Bush 46%

Background: Democrats have won this state 6 of the last 10 elections, with the first of Clinton's wins being attributable to Ross Perot being on the ballot (19%). Typically, the races in the Keystone state have been close. Pennsylvania started as leaning Bush last time, but has drifted to where it has a slight advantage for the Democrats. Republicans hold a 12-7 advantage in the numbers of Representatives, and hold both Senate seats. They also hold both chambers of the state legislature. The Democrats hold the major executive branch positions except for Attorney General, and have a significant registration advantage (48%-42%).

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
5/13/03 Quinnipiac Link 952 RV 3.2% Bush 56% Kerry 34% Bush +22
10/9/03 Quinnipiac Link 1,116 RV 3% Bush 50% Kerry 43% Bush +7
11/23/03 Muhlenberg College Link 430 RV 4.7% Bush 47% Kerry 40% Bush +7
12/14/03 Quinnipiac Link 1,092 RV 3% Bush 50% Kerry 42% Bush +8
2/18/04 Quinnipiac Ling 1,356 RV 2.7% Bush 45% Kerry 50% Dem +5
2/22/04 Keystone Poll Link 392 RV 4.9% Bush 46% Kerry 47% Dem +1
3/?/04 Muhlenberg College Link RV ?% Bush ?% Kerry ?% Push
3/3/04 Pennsylvania Public Mind Link 1750 Adults 2.4% Bush 45% Kerry 47% Kerry +2
3/11/04 Survey USA Link 802 RV 3.5% Bush 47% Kerry 49% Kerry +2
3/15/04 Qunnipiac Link 1,022 RV (Nader not given as an option) 3 Bush 44% Kerry 45% Kerry +1
3/15/04 Qunnipiac Link 1,022 RV (Nader given as an option) 3% Bush 44% Kerry 40% Bush +4
3/16/04 Rasmussen Link 500 LV 4.5% Bush 44% Kerry 45% Kerry +1
3/29/04 Keystone Poll Link 565 RV 4.1% Bush 46% Kerry 40% Bush +6
4/19/04 Quinnipiac Link 769 RV, Nader not an option 3.5% Bush 46% Kerry 42% Bush +4
4/19/04 Quinnipiac Link 769 RV, Nader an option 3.5% Bush 45% Kerry 39% Bush +6
4/25/04 Pew Research Link 867 RV 4% Bush 42% Kerry 42% Push
5/3/04 Bennett, Petts, And Blumenthal (D) Link LV 4% Bush 43% Kerry 49% Kerry +6
5/7/04 Susquehanna Polling (R) Link 650 LV 4% Bush 46% Kerry 44% Bush +2
5/14/04 Muhlenberg College Link 400 RV 5% Bush 43% Kerry 48% Kerry +5
5/24/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 3% Bush 42.6% Kerry 50.8% Kerry +8.2
5/25/04 Quinnipiac Link 701 LV 4% Bush 41% Kerry 44% Kerry +3
5/31/04 Rasmussen Link LV 5% Bush 45% Kerry 44% Bush +1
6/6/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 3.6% Bush 44.9% Kerry 51.5% Kerry +5.6
6/9/04 SurveyUSA Link 684 LV 4% Bush 46% Kerry 47% Kerry +1
6/21/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 3.4% Bush 44.7% Kerry 51.7% Kerry +4.0%
* Zogby Interactive polls involve a self-selected group of respondants, and as such are highly suspect. They are considered extremely little (if at all) within the ECB.

Punditry: Last time, I wrote "Sometimes Bush is coming out ahead, sometimes Kerry is coming out ahead. That sounds just like a Tossup to me." Some things don't change. Pennsylvania is yet another state where by nearly a 2-1 margin, Kerry's support is more against Bush than for him.


F Florida
Electoral Votes: 27
2000 Result
Bush 48.85%
Gore 48.84%

Background: Despite the best efforts of the results-oriented Florida Supreme Court, Bush held on to win the state in 2000, just as every recount conducted afterwards validated. Did you know that since 1948, though, that only three times has Florida gone for the Democrat candidate? Johnson got 51%, Carter got 52%, and Clinton (2nd term) got 48% (with Perot taking 9%). More times than not, the Republican has come closer to 60%. Why Bush underperformed here to such a degree is something his campaign must rectify.

In the first ECB of 2000, Florida was listed as a battleground with a slight advantage to Gore. This time around, it is starting with a slight advantage for Bush. Florida has 6 Democrat Representatives and 18 Republicans. Both chambers of the state legislature are controlled by the Republicans. Republicans control most of the executive branch. However, both Senate seats are held by Democrats. As of Dec. 1, 2003, the state registration was 41.9% Democrat and 38.6% Republican.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
4/29/03 Mason-Dixon Link RV 5% Bush 53% Unnamed Democrat 38% Bush +15
12/3/03 Schroth & Associates Link 800 RV 3.5% Bush 43% Unnamed Democrat 37% Bush +6
1/15/04 Rasmussen Reports Link LV 5% Bush 47% Unnamed Democrat 45% Bush +2
2/27/04 Research 2000 Link 500 LV 4% Bush 47% Kerry 42% Bush +5
3/4/04 American Research Group Link 600 LV 4% Bush 44% Kerry 45% Kerry +1
3/4/04 Schroth & Associates Link 800 RV 3.5% Bush 43% Kerry 49% Kerry +6
3/14/04 Rasmussen Link 400 LV 5% Bush 45% Kerry 48% Kerry +3
4/1/04 Mason-Dixon Link 625 RV 4% Bush 51% Kerry 43% Bush +8
4/13/04 Rasmussen Reports Link 500 LV 5% Bush 46% Kerry 47% Kerry +1
4/21/04 American Research Group Link 600 LV 4% Bush 46% Kerry 45% Bush +1
5/9/04 Hamilton, Beattie and Staff (D) Link 1000 LV 3% Bush 47% Kerry 50% Kerry +3
5/19/04 American Research Group Link 600 LV 4% Bush 47% Kerry 46% Bush +1
5/24/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 3.4% Bush 47.6% Kerry 49% Kerry +1.4
5/31/04 Rasmussen Link LV 4% Bush 46% Kerry 46% Push
6/6/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 2.9% Bush 47.9% Kerry 49.5% Kerry +1.6
6/14/04 SurveyUSA Link 723 LV 4% Bush 50% Kerry 43% Bush +7
6/21/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 2.6% Bush 50.3% Kerry 46.1% Bush +4.2%
* Zogby Interactive polls involve a self-selected group of respondants, and as such are highly suspect. They are considered extremely little (if at all) within the ECB.

Punditry: If SurveyUSA is correct, then Bush has opened things up a tad in Florida. This would be the first evidence I have seen, and as such I will make the cautious redesignation as Slight Advantage for Bush rather than the "Leaning" designation which a 7 point lead would normally merit (especially when one candidate is at 50%).

As has been SurveyUSA's tendency of late, they asked if a candidate's supporters are "for" that candidate or "against" the other. Over 80% of Bush's support is for him, while less than 40% of Kerry's is for him. What happens to the "anti-Bush" voters after the convention will probably decide this election.


F Maryland
Electoral Votes: 10
2000 Result
Gore 57%
Bush 40%

Background: Since the 1960 election, the only Republicans to carry Maryland were Nixon for his re-elect, Reagan for his re-elect, and George H. W. Bush during his first campaign. Clinton did not need Perot to win here either time. This is a Democrat state.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
1/12/04 Potomac, Inc Link 1,200 LV 2.8% Bush 41% Unnamed Democrat 51% Dem +10
2/8/04 Gonzalez Link 818 RV 3.5% Bush 40% Kerry 51% Kerry +11
2/27/04 Mason-Dixon Link 625 LV 4% Bush 38% Kerry 47% Kerry +9
3/24/04 Gonzales Research and Marketing Link 825 LV 4% Bush 43% Kerry 48% Kerry +5
6/9/04 Gonzales Research and Marketing Link LV 4% Bush 38% Kerry 52% Kerry +14

Punditry: This is more what I expected from Maryland. Strong Advantage for Kerry. The lack of details in the poll writeup precludes any detailed analysis.


F New York
Electoral Votes: 31
2000 Result
Gore 60%
Bush 35%

Background: From 1960 onward, Republicans have carried the Empire State only three times. Nixon beat McGovern, Reagan beat Carter, and Reagan beat Mondale. Even Dukakis won here.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
4/03 Marist Link RV 4% Bush 32% Unnamed Democrat 39% Dem +7
9/23/03 Marist Link RV 4% Bush 32% Unnamed Democrat 48% Dem +16
10/28/03 Quinnipiac NA RV 4% Bush 42% Kerry 50% Dem +8
11/19/03 Zogby Link LV 4% Bush 41% Kerry 46% Dem +5
1/7/04 Marist Link 617 RV 4% Bush 34% Unnamed Democrat 36% Dem +2
4/12/04 Quinnipiac Link 1,279 RV, Nader an option 2.7% Bush 35% Kerry 49% Kerry +14
4/12/04 Quinnipiac Link 1,279 RV, Nader not an option 2.7% Bush 36% Kerry 53% Kerry +17
4/15/04 Marist Link 602 RV 4% Bush 38% Kerry 56% Kerry +18
4/22/04 Siena Researh Institute Link 625 RV 3.9% Bush 32% Kerry 51% Kerry +19
5/31/04 Rasmussen Link LV 3% Bush 34% Kerry 57% Kerry +23
6/14/04 Quinnipiac Link 1,466 RV 3% Bush 34% Kerry 52% Kerry +18

Punditry: Most of the other polls besides Rasmussen had the race being right near where the Quinnipiac poll has it, which is in the Strong Advantage for Kerry column, suggesting that I moved it to Safe too quickly.

But in the grand scheme of things, does the difference between the two designations make a difference for New York at this point? If NY is to become competitive, the race will long be over.

Bush has an impossible task in trying to woo voters in a state where 49% of Republicans approve of the job Chuck Schumer is doing.


Rhode Island
Electoral Votes: 4
2000 Result
Gore 61%
Bush 32%

Background: Nine of the last eleven times, Rhode Island has gone for the Democrat. The two exceptions? When Republican Presidents that the state rejected originally ran for re-election (Reagan and Nixon).

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
2/7/04 Brown University NA RV 4.6% Bush 31% Unnamed Democrat 53% Dem +22
6/14/04 Brown University Link 477 RV 5% Bush 25% Kerry 49% Kerry +24

Punditry: We can all sleep better now that Rhode Island has been polled again. Safe for Kerry.


F West Virginia
Electoral Votes: 5
2000 Result
Bush 52%
Gore 46%

Background: It was a huge change from the past when Bush beat Gore here in 2000. Over the last eighteen elections, the Democrats have won 14, and both of Clinton's wins would almost certainly have come even without Ross Perot. This is not a state the Democrats should have lost.

In the first ECB of 2000, West Virginia was rated as a battleground state with a slight advantage to Bush. This time around, it is starting as a complete tossup. Two of West Virginia's three Representatives are Democrats. Democrats control everything else: both Senate seats, both chambers of the state legislature, and the top executive branch offices. It is easy to see why, when 60% of the registered voters are Democrats and just 29% Republican.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
3/24/04 American Research Group Link 600 LV, Nader not an option 4% Bush 47% Kerry 46% Bush +1
3/24/04 American Research Group Link 600 LV, Nader an option 4% Bush 46% Kerry 46% Push
4/15/04 Rasmussen Link 500 LV 4.5% Bush 46% Kerry 41% Bush +5
4/29/04 Ipsos Public Affairs Link 984 RV 3% Bush 49% Kerry 45% Bush +4
5/24/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 4.4% Bush 48.3% Kerry 45.9% Bush +2.4
5/28/04 Mason-Dixon** Link 625 LV 4% Bush 41% Kerry 47% Kerry +6
6/6/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 4.4% Bush 43.5% Kerry 46.6% Kerry +2.9
6/17/04 American Research Group Link 600 LV 4% Bush 44% Kerry 47% Kerry +3
6/21/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 4.5% Bush 49.1% Kerry 43.1% Bush +6.0%
* Zogby Interactive polls involve a self-selected group of respondants, and as such are highly suspect. They are considered extremely little (if at all) within the ECB.
** May 28 Mason-Dixon poll was for an "unspecified private client". Odds are this means it was for a particular party or candidate or PAC, which would have control over the script and other facets of the methodology. Caveat lector. Punditry: The ARG poll has 59% Democrats, which actually is not unusual for West Virginia since that is the percentage of registered voters who are Democrats. Bush's approval rating among Democrats has fallen 15 points since March, a trend Bush must reverse if he is going to win this heavily Democratic state the way he did in 2000.


Arizona
Electoral Votes: 10
2000 Result
Bush 51%
Gore 45%

Background: Since Harry Truman, only Bill Clinton (during his re-elect) has carried the Grand Canyon State for the Democrats. Clinton also made it close with the help of Perot in 1992. Other than that, things have been surprisingly one-sided. Arizona has 6 of 8 of its Representatives and both of its Senators from the GOP. The GOP also controls both chambers of the state legislature. The top of the executive branch is run by Democrats, with Janet Napolitano being a first term Governor and Terry Goddard being the Attorney General. Most other top executive offices are held by Republicans. Republicans have a 41% to 35% lead in voter registration.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
7/18/03 Behavior Research Center Link 701 Adults 4.3% Bush 55% Unnamed Opponent 41% Bush +14
1/11/04 Behavior Research Center Link 641 Adults 3.9% Bush 50% Highest Ranking Democrat (Dean) 38% Bush +12
2/19/04 SurveyUSA Link RV 4.3% Bush 52% Kerry 44% Bush +8
2/22/04 Arizona State University Link 430 RV 4% Bush 44% Kerry 46% Dem +2
3/18/04 Survey USA Link 634 LV 4.0% Bush 51% Kerry 42% Bush +9
4/26/04 Arizona State University Link 410 RV 5% Bush 41% Kerry 38% Bush +3
5/4/04 Behavior Research Center Link 555 RV, Nader not an option 4% Bush 46% Kerry 42% Bush +4
5/4/04 Behavior Research Center Link 555 RV, Nader an option 4% Bush 45% Kerry 37% Bush +8
5/23/04 Arizona State University Link 377 RV 5% Bush 43% Kerry 38% Bush +5
6/13/04 Market Solutions Link 600 LV 4% Bush 44% Kerry 41% Bush +3

Punditry: A bit tighter in Arizona than the President's campaign would like, I am sure. There are some strange internals in this poll. Bush has a 90% approval rating among Republicans, which is about what is seen in other states. But 12% of Republicans, according to this poll, will vote for Kerry. Bush does incredibly poorly among independents, getting just 28% from them (with 27% either undecided or voting for a third party). Bush does get 14% of the Democrats. Taken together with the fact that overall the poll has 11% undecideds, it shows that within party, both Bush and Kerry are getting only 80% or less of their own; this seems extremely low to me.

The result is also tighter than the last handful of polls here. If the next one shows the state this close it will move into the slight advantage category, but for now I am keeping it as Leaning Towards Bush.


Washington
Electoral Votes: 11
2000 Result
Gore 50%
Bush 45%

Background: The Democrats have won the last four, and 6 of the last 10, with all four Republican wins coming consecutively (Nixon, Ford, ReaganX2). It is unclear as to if Clinton would have won the first time here sans Perot; it would likely have been extremely close. The Dukakis/Bush race was very close. The Clinton/Dole race was not.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
1/5/04 SurveyUSA NA 975 RV 3% Bush 48% Kerry 49% Kerry +1
2/4/04 SurveyUSA Link 975 RV 3% Bush 43% Kerry 55% Kerry +12
3/24/04 SurveyUSA Link 698 LV 4% Bush 43% Kerry 47% Kerry +4
3/25/04 Rasmussen Link 500 LV 5% Bush 44% Kerry 50% Kerry +6
4/5/04 The Elway Poll NA LV 5% Bush 41% Kerry 46% Kerry +5
4/18/04 Moore Information (R) Link 500 RV 4% Bush 41% Kerry 45% Kerry +4
5/24/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 4.3% Bush 44.4% Kerry 52.5% Kerry +8.1
6/4/04 SurveyUSA Link 654 LV 4% Bush 44% Kerry 49% Kerry +5
6/6/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 2.3% Bush 44.4% Kerry 51.7% Kerry +7.3
6/11/04 Moore Information (R) Link 500 RV 4% Bush 44% Kerry 45% Kerry +1
6/11/04 Mason-Dixon** Link 625 LV 4% Bush 42% Kerry 46% Kerry +4
6/21/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 2.8% Bush 45.2% Kerry 51.6% Kerry +6.4%
* Zogby Interactive polls involve a self-selected group of respondants, and as such are highly suspect. They are considered extremely little (if at all) within the ECB.

** Done for a 'private public policy client'. Punditry: The newest Mason-Dixon poll is a partisan poll-- we just do not know for which side. It was done at the behest of an unidentified PAC. It shows what most polls in Washington have shown so far-- Kerry leading by a handful of points, right around one span of the Margin of Error. Leaning Towards Kerry.


North Carolina
Electoral Votes: 15
2000 Result
Bush 56%
Gore 43%

Background: Since Lyndon Johnson's win here, only once have the Democrats taken Tar Heel electors. That's a bit deceptive, however, as many times it was extremely close. Carter lost to Reagan here by only two points in that nationwide blowout. Clinton lost two elections by a combined total of 5%. Yet the Clinton losses are also deceptive, in that the margins would have been considerably larger without Perot and his charts. Simply stated, like much of the south North Carolina votes Republican for President, although a southerner atop the ticket can make things interesting; not always though, as Al Gore demonstrated.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
9/16/03 Research2000 Link 600 LV 4% Bush 51% Edwards 40% Bush +11
11/15/03 Research2000 Link 600 LV 4% Bush 54% Edwards 42% Bush +12
11/25/03 Survey USA Link 563 RV 4.2% Bush 53% Kerry 39% Bush +14
11/25/03 Survey USA Link 563 RV 4.2% Bush 52% Edwards 45% Bush +7
2/26/04 Survey USA Link 654 RV 3.9% Bush 53% Kerry 42% Bush +11
3/11/04 Rasmussen Link 400 LV 3% Bush 51% Kerry 43% Bush +8
4/1/04 Bennett, Petts and Blumenthal (D) No Link LV 4% Bush 51% Kerry 44% Bush +7
5/14/04 Mason-Dixon Link LV 4% Bush 48% Kerry 41% Bush +7
5/31/04 Rasmussen Link LV 5% Bush 48% Kerry 44% Bush +4
6/16/04 Research2000 Link 600 LV 4% Bush 47% Kerry 42% Bush +5

Punditry: The poll reinforces Rasmussen's previous result (and Rasmussen himself has just recently upgraded North Carolina in Bush's direction based on his more recent numbers). What strikes me as interesting is the comparison between this result and the previous Research2000 North Carolina poll conducted last November matching up Bush against Edwards. Edwards got 42%, which is exactly what Kerry gets now. The margin is smaller because many who had been for Bush are now undecided. This shows that the President is vulnerable here but that the Democrats do not have an easy sell. Leans Towards Bush.


Tennessee
Electoral Votes: 11
2000 Result
Bush 51%
Gore 47%

Background: Carter against Ford, Clinton twice (both times needing help from Perot), and Johnson. Republicans generally have had success here since Truman.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
12/8/03 Mason-Dixon Link LV 4% Bush 52% Unnamed Democrat 37% Bush +15
1/29/04 Mason-Dixon NA LV 5% Bush 47% Kerry 43% Bush +4
2/28/03 Middle Tennessee State University Link 701 Voting Age Residents 4% Bush 48% Kerry 44% Bush +4
3/22/04 Survey USA Link 678 LV 3.9% Bush 52% Kerry 41% Bush +11
5/24/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 3.0% Bush 49.3% Kerry 46.8% Bush +2.5
6/6/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 3.7% Bush 54.3% Kerry 42.6% Bush +11.7
6/16/04 Rasmussen Link 500 LV 5% Bush 49% Kerry 41% Bush +8
6/21/04 Zogby Interactive* Link LV 3.5% Bush 57.4% Kerry 38.6% Bush +18.8%
6/21/04 SurveyUSA Link 700 LV 4% Bush 51% Kerry 41% Bush +10
* Zogby Interactive polls involve a self-selected group of respondants, and as such are highly suspect. They are considered extremely little (if at all) within the ECB.

Punditry: SurveyUSA's poll remains steady since March. Good news for Kerry-- of the states SurveyUSA has polled, Tennessee has the highest percentage of his supporters who are for him as opposed to against Bush (although that just may mean that even the Democrat base in Tennessee is not as rabidly anti-Bush as it is elsewhere). I am very close to redesignating Tennessee as strong for Bush. An earlier ECB article suggested that Gore's impact on the ticket in his homestate was on the order of 5-10%, which would be in line with current polls. Leaning Towards Bush.


New Jersey
Electoral Votes: 15
2000 Result
Gore 56%
Bush 40%

Background: New Jersey used to be considered a Republican state. Those days have passed, although there are still some signs of life. In the last 10 Presidential elections it has gone 1-6-3 with the Republican wins coming in the middle, the last Clinton win and the Gore win were by such substantial margins that it is hard to avoid the feeling that New Jersey is trending leftward.

If New Jersey remains tight enough to stay in the battleground, it is a case of back to the future. ECB2000 started with it leaning Gore's way. The Democrats have 7 of 13 Representatives and both Senate seats, control both chambers of the state legislature, hold all of the important executive offices, and have a 25%-19% advantage in voter registration.

Polling Data:

Date Polling Company Link Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin
9/8/03 Rutgers Link 802 Adults 3.5% Bush 43% Unnamed Democrat 35% Bush +8
9/15/03 Fairleigh Dickinson University/Public Mind Link 600 RV 4% Bush 36% Unnamed Democrat 29% Bush +7
9/25/03 Quinnipiac Link RV 3.1% Bush 48% Kerry 43% Bush +5
11/10/03 Quinnipiac Link 1,027 RV 3.1% Bush 46% Kerry 43% Bush +3
1/11/04 Fairleigh Dickinson University/Public Mind Link 600 RV 4% Bush 40% Unnamed Democrat 32% Bush +8
1/13/04 Rutgers Link 823 RV 4.2% Bush 41% Unnamed Democrat 38% Bush +3
4/10/04 Fairleigh Dickinson University/Public Mind Link 802 RV, Nader not an option 3.5% Bush 47% Kerry 48% Kerry +1
4/10/04 Fairleigh Dickinson University/Public Mind Link 802 RV, Nader an option 3.5% Bush 48% Kerry 44% Bush +4
4/20/04 Rasmussen Link 500 LV 4.5% Bush 39% Kerry 51% Kerry +12
5/4/04 Rutgers / Eagleton Link 643 RV 4% Bush 37% Kerry 43% Kerry +6
5/16/04 Quinnipiac Link 1,129 RV, Nader not an option 2.9% Bush 44% Kerry 47% Kerry +3
5/16/04 Quinnipiac Link 1,129 RV, Nader an option 3% Bush 43% Kerry 46% Kerry +3
5/31/04 Rasmussen Link LV 5% Bush 39% Kerry 51% Kerry +12
6/20/04 Quinnipiac Link 1,167 RV, Nader an option 3% Bush 40% Kerry 46% Kerry +6

Punditry: Has the dream ended? Not quite-- the state still is polling in the competitive (but not overly so) category of Leaning Towards Kerry, which strikes me as about where it belongs. Bush is weaker among self-identified Republicans than he is in other states, with 12% of them saying they intend to vote for Kerry.


Effective National Popular Results: Bush 45.2%, Kerry 44.2%

Kerry E F Bush
Safe Strong Lean Slight Tossup Slight Lean Strong Safe
DC (3) DE (3) CA (55)
K49-B41
5/31/04
MI (17)
K47-B45
5/31/04
NM (5)
B46-K45
4/1/04
VA (13)
B47-K45
5/31/04
NV (5)
B49-K38
3/17/04
MS (6)
B49-UD29
12/22/03
AK (3)
HI (4) VT (3)
K51-B36
5/1/04
WA (11)
K45-B44
K46-B42
6/11/04
NH (4)
K46-B46
6/9/04
OR (7)
B46-K45
5/31/04
AR (6)
B48-K43
5/31/04
CO (9)
B49-K44
4/14/04
KS (6)
B57-K39
3/4/04
ND (3)
MA (12)
K58-B33
5/31/04
CT (7)
K46-B36
6/1/04
IA (7)
K49-B41
5/31/04
WV (5)
K47-B44
6/17/04
PA (21)
B45-K44
5/31/04
FL (27)
B50-K43
6/14/04
MO (11)
B48-K37
6/8/04
OK (7)
B53-K34
5/20/04
NE (5)
RI (4)
K49-B25
6/14/04
ME (4)
K54-B35
5/31/04
MN (10)
K46.5-B42.2
6/14/04
- WI (10)
B44-K42
6/8/04
- AZ (10)
B44-K41
6/13/04
SD (3)
B50-K35
5/21/04
WY (3)
- IL (21)
K52-B39
6/9/04
NJ (15)
K46-B40
6/20/04
- OH (20)
K45-B42
6/8/04
- NC (15)
B47-K42
6/16/04
LA (9)
B48-K42
5/31/04
ID (4)
B55-K23
3/17/04
- MD (10)
K52-B38
6/9/04
- - - - TN (11)
B51-K41
6/21/04
GA (15)
B49-K32
6/2/04
UT (5)
B67-K22
5/10/04
- NY (31)
K52-B34
6/14/04
- - - - - SC (8)
B49-K39
5/31/04
IN (11)
B54-K33
5/19/04
- - - - - - - KY (8)
B52-K39
6/8/04
MT (3)
B53-K33
5/26/04
- - - - - - - - AL (9)
B57-K36
5/31/04
- - - - - - - - TX (34)
B55-K38
5/31/04
Totals
Kerry States Battleground States Bush States

23 79 98 26 63 46 61 62 80

200 135 203

Discuss ECB2004 On Free Republic



TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona; US: Florida; US: Illinois; US: Maryland; US: New Hampshire; US: New Jersey; US: New York; US: North Carolina; US: Pennsylvania; US: Rhode Island; US: Tennessee; US: Washington; US: West Virginia
KEYWORDS: dales; ecb; ecb2004; electionpresident; electoralcollege
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To: Republic If You Can Keep It
Well, let's see.

Alaska, Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wyoming would all go for Bush. That's 24.

Arkansas, California, Hawaii, Massachusettes, Maryland, Maine, North Dakota, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington would go Kerry. That's 11.

Connecticut has only a 1 seat Democrat edge but they are more likely to pick up 1 than lose 1, so it goes Kerry giving him 12.

Illinois has a 1 seat Republican edge, but at an eyeball glance I don't see any that we are going to lose, so that's 25 for the good guys.

Missouri is another where we have a 1 seat edge. But none of our guys appears too vulnerable. 26.

North Carolina is another. Again I don't see any losses. 27.

New Jersey is a 1 seat edge for the Democrats and we won't gain ground. 13.

West Virginia has a 1 seat Democrat edge that they should hold. 14.

Louisiana we have a 1 seat edge. Tauzin's seat is vulnerable for us, but on their side both Alexander's seat and Johns' seats are.

Minnesota has an even split and probably will after the election.

Mississippi has an even split and probably will after the election.

New Mexico we have a 1 seat edge but could possibly lose it.

Nevada has a 1 seat Republican edge but we could possibly lose it.

Oregon has a 2 seat Democrat edge but two of their incumbents are vulnerable.

South Dakota depends on the Herseth/Diedrich rematch. Whichever party wins that would get it.

Tennessee has a 1 seat Democrat edge but they are not going to lose it.

Wisconsin has a split delegation, but Democrat Ron Kind is vulnerable.

So I see it as 27-14 with 9 states that either would deadlock or could be decided on election day. If it goes to the House, we win.

21 posted on 06/23/2004 7:09:22 PM PDT by Dales
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To: Dales

Personally I find the betting odds on www.tradesports.com ( which equal the London bookmaker odds ) more persuasive. Polls can lie, but when people bet money they are serious!


22 posted on 06/23/2004 7:11:25 PM PDT by doug9732
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To: Neets

Great work on behalf of all of us.


23 posted on 06/23/2004 7:25:47 PM PDT by oldtimer (t)
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To: Dales
Connecticut has only a 1 seat Democrat edge but they are more likely to pick up 1 than lose 1, so it goes Kerry giving him 12.

Connecticut actually has a one-seat Republican edge (Simmons, Johnson and Shays are all GOP). However, John Kerry should win all of those districts by 10-15 points. Especially Simmons' District 2, which will be closer to the 15-range. He will perennially have a tough race. Casting a vote for Bush could be uncomfortable for any three of those Republicans, and I wonder if one of them might vote their district rather than their party. Can they chicken out and abstain?

What happens if a state like Minnesota deadlocks? Is there a mechanism for breaking the tie, or does that state end up effectively not casting a vote?

24 posted on 06/23/2004 7:39:16 PM PDT by BlackRazor
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To: Dales
I remember Earl Pomeroy of ND declaring in 2000 that if the election went to the House, he would vote for W to reflect the wishes of his constituents. If others followed suit, the election in the House could get real interesting.

I think W would win it, but there would be an all-out assault from the media and the RATS to give the election to JFnK -- especially if he were the popular vote winner. The GOP historically has not held up well in such situations.

Bottom line is I really hope W wins it without having to go to the House.

25 posted on 06/23/2004 7:45:57 PM PDT by comebacknewt
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To: Dales

When you go to the individual state breakdowns, the margin for the first two states are incorrect. In NH, you have Bush winning the last Zogby poll although the numbers are for Kerry. The next state has Kerry +4 when it should be +7.


26 posted on 06/23/2004 7:47:53 PM PDT by Tall_Texan (Ronald Reagan - Greatest President of the 20th Century.)
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To: BlackRazor

"What happens if a state like Minnesota deadlocks? Is there a mechanism for breaking the tie, or does that state end up effectively not casting a vote?"

They can't cast a vote. If the House deadlocks, the VP elected by the Senate could be "acting President" for up to 4 years.


27 posted on 06/23/2004 7:49:13 PM PDT by doug9732
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To: doug9732

Acting President McCain?


28 posted on 06/23/2004 7:52:22 PM PDT by comebacknewt
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To: BlackRazor
You are right, we have a 1 seat edge but have a vulnerable seat in Simmons. But I think that if you start to wonder if these guys would hold rank, a better question would be about the Democrats in North Dakota and Mississippi, or should Stephanie Herseth win again in South Dakota.

They would be under a lot more pressure if the split delegation states were not stalemated.

There is no provision for breaking ties in state delegations.

I think the person who said it is the incoming Congress that votes was wrong though, which obviously changes my analysis a tad (SD would go to the Democrats).

29 posted on 06/23/2004 7:53:17 PM PDT by Dales
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To: All

Heads up. With things this close, remember Nebraska and Maine are not winner take all. They divide up their districts and apportion EVs accordingly.


30 posted on 06/23/2004 7:59:16 PM PDT by Owen
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To: Dales
I am pretty sure the existing Congress would be the one that would vote.

Right now we have 31 states with a GOP majority. Again, that should be enough for W to win, but at that point virtually anything could happen.

31 posted on 06/23/2004 8:10:27 PM PDT by comebacknewt
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To: Dales; All

Although there's a lot of time before November, what concerns me is the weakness Bush shows in New Hampshire and West Virginia.

The state of the steel industry in WV is obviously costing him support but NH is another story. Given the GOP advantage in that state, I'm wondering why Bush is struggling there.

Let's say that Bush loses WV. He needs to pick up a state somewhere else. I'm looking at some of the other states (Iowa, Oregon, etc) and I see those tilting towards Kerry at the end.

For the first time, I'm not feeling very optimistic about the election.


32 posted on 06/23/2004 8:44:08 PM PDT by MplsSteve
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To: Dales
Love the FL poll, and SurveyUSA came out looking rather well in the SC GOP runoff, off by 5 pts in favor of the eventual winner so they nailed it pretty close. In the FL poll, Bush is right at the edge of the double-MOE spread, AND sitting at 50% - very bad news for Kerry in a state he almost has to win since last week's OH poll is showing a similar move to Bush.

Overall, with 2 Bush states NH and WV sitting in Kerry's column, he has to win all his column plus OH and at least one other state. On that note, since Bush is leading in OH about as much as he is in FL, I wonder why its in the Tossup category.

33 posted on 06/23/2004 8:45:05 PM PDT by Citizen of the Savage Nation
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation

I have to correct myself about OH, the poll I was referring to, Mason-Dixon, is almost a month old so the data is a bit stale even if the only recent polls are dubious with the exception of Rasmussen. I guess its still a tossup barring a new poll from someone reputable.


34 posted on 06/23/2004 8:48:41 PM PDT by Citizen of the Savage Nation
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation

Furthermore regarding OH, isn't interesting even if the Zogby Interactive polls are generally suspect, that the TREND over the last 3 polls is solidly pro-Bush. Can't wait until our 527's start hitting him starting with the new Club for Growth spot!


35 posted on 06/23/2004 8:54:58 PM PDT by Citizen of the Savage Nation
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation

Now that I mention that, the ZI polls for PA are also showing a similar but smaller push to Bush. We will know early on election night if Bush wins PA, its over.


36 posted on 06/23/2004 8:57:41 PM PDT by Citizen of the Savage Nation
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To: MplsSteve
NH is a tight state that neighbors MA so Live Shot was on the TV all the time for decades.

And WV was a state that was amazing we won last time.

I think we'll take WV again though in the end.

I also think that by then, it won't come down to these small states. We're going to win big or lose big.

37 posted on 06/23/2004 9:02:51 PM PDT by Dales
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To: JLS
What universer are they in? As far as I can see both FL and OH have made a turn for the president although OH is back in the toss up category. If Bush gets FL and OH, it is hard for me to find a combinnation of states that cause him to lose.

False bravado. Kerry is certainly not campaigning like he's winning and it really shows that only overly-sampled-with-Democrats polls can show Kerry ahead if even mildly. Everyone else has Bush with the lead and the momentum.

Now, if Bush wins OH, and everything else in Dales chart holds through the election, it will be a 269-269 tie. Interesting.

38 posted on 06/23/2004 9:02:51 PM PDT by Citizen of the Savage Nation
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation

Because the poll he is leading in is a Zogby Interactive poll, which I put absolutely zero credence in. I put it up just so people can make their own decisions, but for me an internet based poll using a self-selected sample (partly recruited from marijuana legalization websites) is not to be taken seriously.


39 posted on 06/23/2004 9:05:20 PM PDT by Dales
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation
" Now, if Bush wins OH, and everything else in Dales chart holds through the election, it will be a 269-269 tie. Interesting."

You mean if everything else holds through on my chart, but of the complete tossup states Bush wins Ohio while Kerry wins the other four.

Then yes, that would make 269-269. Again assuming that Bush does not peel off one of Maine's electoral votes.

40 posted on 06/23/2004 9:07:28 PM PDT by Dales
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