Did OKC bombers join TWA 800 plot?

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, April 21, 2004

[Spirited]

My word! We are allowed to post on OKC again?
And there isn't the well constructed chorus about "tin foil" and "conspiracy or right wing nuts"?
Where are all those "knowledgable" ridiculers. Certainly none upright enough to admit to their own stupidity.

[PhilDragoo]

Especially if it were to take place following a presidential plane crash.

"The threat of terrorism is greatly exaggerated."

Archy, you're suggesting that Jihad Fedayeen Kerry and/or She Who Must Be Oyveyyed might sweep into power in November with another 747 center fuel tank Kabukiboom in October involving attack on principal?

I am shocked, shocked.

[archy]

Expect a breakup of the United States similar to that of the Soviet Union, with a Civil War that follows the prototype of Finland in 1918 moreso that the US in 1960-1864, either preceeding or following a Kerry assumption of power.
Especially if it were to take place following a presidential plane crash.

Looking for some hint that this is a tongue-in-cheek comment, or less obviously sarcastic. Hmmm.... coming from someone with posts generally informative and sensible, I've just gotten goosebumps.

We have a ping list of 65 FReepers who think it's a possibility worthy of very real and serious study and consideration; you're welcome to be added if you wish. But I wish it were just grounds for a flip or throaway comment rather than the reality it appears to be in an age of increasing national polarization.

Please do clarify who would be the Vice-President who would assume power. Hillary ?

A possibility, or worse, one with the cunning and skill to depose or eliminate the competition from a Hillary. But don't assume that the power available would be all that usable, given Newton's Third Law.

BTW, I'm one who considers it likely that the US will break up, or break out in Civil War, sometime during my life. We are as polarized in this nation as we were in the 1850s.

That's one possibility; another is something akin to the city-states of Renaissance Italy, or of the Greek city-states 500 years B.C., metroplexes and uni-gov conglomerates of interlocking communities or urban sprakl.

Take a look at some of the past postings and response comments and see if you figure the further considerations would be of interest to you: Civil War II list post keyword: CWII

BTW: the casualties of the 4-month long Finnish civil war amounted to somewhere between one to three percent of the population of Finland at that time. You are invited to extrapolate those percentages in a nation of 281,421,906, [2000 Census] in which any such bloodlettig that begins is most unlikely to conclude after only 4 months of activity.

Outcome

Lives Lost

	Whites	Reds	Other
Killed in action:	3 279	5 324	484
Executed, shot or murdered:	1 321	7 207	392
Concentration Camp deaths:	6	11 785	500
Capital punishment:	-	125	-
Died after release:	-	597	2
Missing:	42	1 818	116
Other causes:	173	695	536
Total:	4 821	27 426	2 030
Source:http://vesta.narc.fi/cgi-bin/db2www/sotasurmaetusivu/stat2

The civil war had ended, but it left the Finnish society divided in two groups. A "Red terror" campaign against the right wing was followed by a "White terror" against supporters of the revolutionary movement. Disease, hunger and maltreatment killed thousands of detained in the concentration camps. The conflict and its immediate aftermath are considered to have killed more than 30,000 out of a population of three million.

In addition, an unknown number of Red children were orphaned or sent to foster homes and institutions, as their parents were either interned (as most 75,000 Red internees) or deemed unfit to raise patriotic children for the independent Finland.

Many Red children suffered from the social stigma of being representatives of the defeated treacherous proletarians, but in particular those children who were separated from their parents.

A lot of Finnish Reds fled to Russia at the end of the Civil War, and in the following years. Most of them were lost in Stalin's "Great Purges". Their number is unknown.

While the Whites celebrated the "War of Independence" against Russia and Bolshevism, the Left refused for many years to participate in commemorations of Finland's pre-Civil War independence. The communist party was out-lawed in 1923 and 1930, while the Social Democrats remained in opposition for most of the inter-war period. Svinhufvud became president 1931 to 1937 on the program to keep the Social Democrats out of the Cabinet, no matter what.

Finland, the first Nordic (and European) country to adopt universal suffrage, became the last to adopt parliamentarism.

The Civil War, and the pre-war polarization, did directly and indirectly lead to Finland developing a mentality more like 19th century Prussia, with the Military forces and Conservative ideologies having earned great prestige for its success, and less akin to her Scandinavian brethren where popular movements and Liberal ideologies had won that prestigious position.

[archy]

I did not take this to mean that Drew spoke in Arabic-accented English, but that he spoke in Pashto, or some other Pakistani language.

After all, Pakistanis are not Arabs, nor do they speak Arabic as their native tongue.

But a Urdu or Pushtu-speaking Pakistani might well speak to an Arabic-speaking Saudi in heavily accented English.

Many of our well-trained SF guys can speak several languages.

Indeed. And many of them are native speakers of those languages, very capable of determining regional accents or idiom, or other subtleties lost on those not having been born with or otherwise very first-hand knowledgable of such languages.

Ever wonder what SF guys do when there's no other pressing duty, or when broken down into smaller details with those with such abilities around? You'll not only find those in SF with native fluency, but those who've served with such over a decade's career, and have a good working knowledge in a dozen or more languages learned from those teammates.

At one time it was virtually a requirement to speak German if stationed with the 10th SF Group at Bad Toelz; or Spanish if with the 8th Group.

[Nita Nupress]

Y'all were probably on this thread, but I'll link it here for others...

Here's a thread I posted a long time ago about the Unresolved Deaths in Oklahoma: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3affee2e2ec9.htm

A few years later I found a discrepancy in Michael A. O'Camb's research on one of the victims, so now I'm not sure if the rest of it is accurate or not. Plus, I never could find out anything about Michael A. O'Camb himself. Anyone know who he is?

If nothing else, I formatted the article with the dead people's names in bold, which is useful for those who want to read it.

[Nita Nupress]

<< Expect a breakup of the United States similar to that of the Soviet Union, with a Civil War that follows the prototype of Finland in 1918 moreso that the US in 1960-1864, either preceeding or following a Kerry assumption of power. >>

Say what? Are you going fringe on me? Or were you always fringe and I just never noticed? LOL!

[Nita Nupress]

And I use the word "research" loosely when referring to O'Camb, btw.

[M. Dodge Thomas]

So...Dick Clarke drew a McVeigh/Nichols connection to Al Qaeda. ...... Well?!? How come we don't hear THIS from the partisan "mainstream" media?

FWIW, I've seen a number of "mainstream" references to Clarke's comments on the possible connection.

All of them presented Clarke's position accurately: that he found the evidence suggestive, and remained fascinated by the possibility that there was connection because he was never able to absolutely eliminate the possibility of such a connection.

[ovrtaxt]

Eric Rudolph? I doubt he did the Olympic bombing.

First, he's a 'radical right winger', and too obvious a scapegoat for the media to blame. The accusation of Rudolph is suspect.

Second, his crimes were driven by ideology. He was rationalizing killing abortion doctors to save the lives of innocent babies. But to randomly bomb innocent people in the street wouldn't fit with his logic of protecting the innocent by killing the guilty. What if he blew up a pregnant woman?

His logic is too predictable for random killing.

[ovrtaxt]

you're in.

[ovrtaxt]

Point taken.

[mo]

I suspect some of the accounts of probable murder listed in that thread(eg Trentadu), possibly by Federal agents, were facilitated by the development of Gorelick's "Wall" between different agencies-which effectively removed many of the possible checks and balances in our system which traditionally helped to prevent such misconduct.

[FlashBack]

Thanks again for the 'heads-up' to this thread...
ordered the 'Third Terrorist' book yesterday but I'm going to be surprised if there's anything in it that I already haven't read here!!!

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

"You do realize that the implicated Americans here in these coverups have essentially committed treason-treason that led to the deaths of 911."

This is the sad part: covering up terrorist acts appears to be government policy. It's bad for the economy to give terrorists credit. At the same time, it gives glory to a pack of scumbags. But if the voter isn't informed, the voter is pulling levers blindly. There is, however, another way to get people informed. Matt Drudge talked about "the din of Small Voices", namely us. It's up to us to get people informed. The problem is, we currently get wrapped in tinfoil, not only by FReeping Thomases, but also by kookophobes who see the truth but deny it. That will ultimately change.

I, for one, want my screen name to remain on the side of Truth. Let the fools of expedience crow and laugh at us. They are dust. FReegards....

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

I confess, I was a respectful doubter about an OKC bombing in the beginning. I was already being ridiculed for my stand on TWA 800. [I don't recall being sarcastic about it though.] Then a theorist [who interviewed bomb expert] put up a web site that convinced me that there could be something to all of this. So I was probably a serious doubter for about a year longer than most of the other 'tinfoil' freepers.

[R. Scott]

Yep.

[ovrtaxt]

Yeah, 'tinfoil'. People can say what they want, but I have a friend who's an FBI agent. He doesn't discuss specifics, but I know how they operate to some degree.

I also know two guys who are retired FBI, one who worked in internal security.

I take the 'tinfoil' accusations with a grain of salt. Yes, we are over here stabbing in the dark at theories, and who are we going to influence on a large scale anyway, but there are ugly secrets out there. Everyone thought Jayna Davis was a kook 2 years ago. Sure.

I do know that the guys doing the grunt work of protective intelligence are WAY overburdened and understaffed, and morale could be better for them. Meanwhile, we spray money all over the planet for social experimentation and political crap.

The 'tinfoil' accusations are laughable. I know what I know.

[happygrl]

because he was never able to absolutely eliminate the possibility of such a connection.

That's the precise reasoning for going after Saddam; we could not rule out a connection with al-Qaeda.

So, he would be supportive of our presidents' inquiry's of a connection between Saddam and 9-11, would he not ? /sarc/

[happygrl]

Very eye-opening info on Finland.

They were then the first country to wage a Civil War and defeat communism. Then they took a RealPolitik turn and implemented what became known as Findlandization in their foreign policy.

Back to CWII. Your scenario of city-states is one that I have also come to, as it fits the real political realities, which are NOT Red state- Blue state, but Urban vs Suburban/Rural. It's just that the coasts have the Big Urban Port Cities, while inland/non-urban areas are quite different politically. This is true in both of my recent places of residence in So Cal where the Inland Empire and Central Valley are different worlds from LA and San Francisco. Philly is the most Democratic large city in the US, while Pennsylvania has a Republican legislature come rain or shine. Even places in the conservative south break down along the urban/nonurban fracture: see Atlanta.

How we will work this out is anyone's guess, but the Culture Wars will be the tipping point, IMHO.

[potlatch]

Very interesting! Thanks for the ping ovrtaxt.