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Fossils Bridge Gap in African Mammal Evolution
Reuters to My Yahoo! ^ | Wed Dec 3, 2003 | Patricia Reaney

Posted on 12/03/2003 4:53:26 PM PST by Pharmboy

LONDON (Reuters) - Fossils discovered in Ethiopia's highlands are a missing piece in the puzzle of how African mammals evolved, a team of international scientists said on Wednesday.

Little is known about what happened to mammals between 24 million to 32 million years ago, when Africa and Arabia were still joined together in a single continent.

But the remains of ancestors of modern-day elephants and other animals, unearthed by the team of U.S. and Ethiopian scientists 27 million years on, provide some answers.

"We show that some of these very primitive forms continue to live through the missing years, and then during that period as well, some new forms evolved -- these would be the ancestors of modern elephants," said Dr John Kappelman, who headed the team.

The find included several types of proboscideans, distant relatives of elephants, and fossils from the arsinoithere, a rhinoceros-like creature that had two huge bony horns on its snout and was about 7 feet high at the shoulder.

"It continues to amaze me that we don't have more from this interval of time. We are talking about an enormous continent," said Kappelman, who is based at the University of Texas at Austin.

Scientists had thought arsinoithere had disappeared much earlier but the discovery showed it managed to survive through the missing years. The fossils from the new species found in Ethiopia are the largest, and at 27 million years old, the youngest discovered so far.

"If this animal was still alive today it would be the central attraction at the zoo," Tab Rasmussen, a paleontologist at Washington University in St Louis, Missouri who worked on the project, said in a statement.

Many of the major fossil finds in Ethiopia are from the Rift Valley. But Kappelman and colleagues in the United States and at Ethiopia's National Science Foundation (news - web sites) and Addis Ababa University concentrated on a different area in the northwestern part of the country.

Using high-resolution satellite images to scour a remote area where others had not looked before, his team found the remains in sedimentary rocks about 6,600 feet above sea level.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: africa; archaeology; crevolist; evolution; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; links; mammals; multiregionalism; neandertal
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601 P L A C E M A R K E R
601 posted on 12/08/2003 4:02:18 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: VadeRetro
But why would anyone who didn't know the urgent theological reasoning ever say so?

Eureka. You've hit upon the crux of the matter. What interpretation would someone with no Christian background or knowledge draw from the evidence?

602 posted on 12/08/2003 12:24:35 PM PST by Junior (To sweep, perchance to clean... Aye, there's the scrub.)
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To: whattajoke
"Actually, if you had the first clue what evolution actually entails (your post clearly shows you don't), you would have found my post not only funny, but enlightening as well."

Ah, I see. So evolutionists as a whole have not yet 'evolved' a sense of humor. What a shame.

603 posted on 12/08/2003 1:53:31 PM PST by MEGoody
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To: Junior
Made a mess of this part though.

Your chosen grounds for the proof of non-evolution--God zapped one species out of existence and poofed in another one--lies in the region between 1 and 0 on the vertical axis, except it's really just the part of that space between about .9 and .5 if such markings were shown.
His gap is only the region between .09 and .05.
604 posted on 12/08/2003 2:05:52 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Just mythoughts
Example how long is it said to be for this earth to be habitable for man after nuclear war?

I'm not aware of anything that would make it uninhabitable. It's possible that disease and the loss infrastructure could kill us all off, but radiation is vastly overated as a killer.

605 posted on 12/08/2003 2:34:53 PM PST by js1138
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To: Ahban
Creatures that can interbreed with neanderthals are by definition neanderthals.

I don't know how I let this slip by me last night, but it goes to the core of how absurd your game is. It's a little like the rule in the old South that if you had any colored ancestry, be it so little as one eighth ("octaroon mulatto!"), by God you were colored.

For all we know, the only reason modern humans and neanderthals can't interbreed is that the neanderthals died out. They may never have been a separate species. I don't know how many times I mentioned last night that interbreeding may have been possible--and may have happened--to the very end. (I'll go further. It may have been the sink in which the last few of them disappeared.) If the question is ever answered to show that modern humans--not as in "early moderns" but as in "you and I"--could have mated with neanderthals, are they "by definition" us or are we them?

And, no, we really don't know this one way or the other. (** "Trying-to-forestall-the-stupidity-bludgeon" alert!! **) This is not the question that the mtDNA tests address.

606 posted on 12/08/2003 3:34:18 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro; Ahban
And yet, chimpanzees do not mate with humans or gorillas, no matter how close their dna is to each other. Your scientists can discover no dna from Neandertal in modern man. He just isn't here anymore
607 posted on 12/08/2003 3:40:22 PM PST by Markofhumanfeet
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To: VadeRetro
For all we know, the only reason modern humans and neanderthals can't interbreed is that the neanderthals died out.

Actually, we know from studies of caves in Israel, that they were on the earth the same time as modern man. My source is the magazine, National Geographic

608 posted on 12/08/2003 3:51:02 PM PST by Markofhumanfeet
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To: Ahban
I meant to include you to this post
609 posted on 12/08/2003 3:54:42 PM PST by Markofhumanfeet
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To: VadeRetro
... interbreeding may have been possible--and may have happened ...

BROKEN ROMANCE
STATED FULLY
SHE WENT WILD
WHEN HE
WENT WOOLY


1942

Interbreeding placemarker...

610 posted on 12/08/2003 3:56:35 PM PST by forsnax5 (The greatest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.)
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To: Markofhumanfeet
Actually, we know from studies of caves in Israel, that they were on the earth the same time as modern man.

They have a large overlap with anatomically modern humans, yes. For sure, it includes the time of the occupation of those caves in Israel. Thank you.

611 posted on 12/08/2003 3:58:47 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
Your're welcome
612 posted on 12/08/2003 4:00:06 PM PST by Markofhumanfeet
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To: Markofhumanfeet
And yet, chimpanzees do not mate with humans or gorillas, no matter how close their dna is to each other.

Sexual selection is an engine of speciation, one of the things that pushes diverging populations apart. Darwin knew that much.

613 posted on 12/08/2003 4:03:12 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
Doesn't matter, the sex drive, and the male penchant for mating, even with inanimate objects, would suggest intraspecie mating, whenever posible
614 posted on 12/08/2003 4:05:20 PM PST by Markofhumanfeet
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To: VadeRetro
As one of our blue friend might say, we do not know for certain that chimps and humans cannot mate.
615 posted on 12/08/2003 4:10:33 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
That's right. And if survival of the fittest ere true, they would have traits to offer each other
616 posted on 12/08/2003 4:12:26 PM PST by Markofhumanfeet
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To: Markofhumanfeet
Doesn't matter, the sex drive, and the male penchant for mating, even with inanimate objects, would suggest intraspecie mating, whenever posible

You slightly oversimplify the diversity of life on Earth. Female selection is a big deal in a lot of life forms. You can just about bet any species with a big dimorphism between males and females and the male more bizarre or gaudier than the female falls into this category.

But sexual selection is only one isolating factor, and only tends to kick in after two subpopulations have already emerged because of other factors. Geographical isolation is probably the biggest speciator. Different niche exploitation is another. Acquired differences in seasonal reproductive timing also matter.

617 posted on 12/08/2003 4:17:02 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: js1138; Ahban
Apparently, some chimps can't get AIDS, no matter how much of the virus you give them. Why then, have humans, having millions of years supposedly, to inherit this trait, in order to survive, not aquired it, from "their closest living relative"?
618 posted on 12/08/2003 4:17:54 PM PST by Markofhumanfeet
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To: VadeRetro; Markofhumanfeet
My 617: Female selection is a big deal in a lot of life forms.

I mean "mate selection by females," of course.

619 posted on 12/08/2003 4:19:55 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Markofhumanfeet
Some Humans don't get AIDS when exposed. What's your point?
620 posted on 12/08/2003 4:20:31 PM PST by js1138
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