Posted on 07/30/2026 7:30:56 AM PDT by Trump20162020
Two-thirds of Americans believe the war in Iran has not been worth fighting.
A new AP-NORC poll found that roughly two-thirds of U.S. adults say the war that began Feb. 28 is not worthwhile. The sentiment is shared by the vast majority of Democrats (87%) and independents (68%), as well as 37% of Republicans.
The AP-NORC poll, conducted July 23-27, surveyed 1,165 adults and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.7 percentage points.
(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...
I never claimed that the CIA had no role in Iran in 1953, did I? Now will you respond to the facts I’ve posted, or just more links to misleading descriptions of those events?
I’ll give you a link. It’s an English translation of the Iranian constitution in force that the time:
https://fis-iran.org/document/iran-1906-constitution/
Here are a few pertinent sections:
Art. 46. The appointment and dismissal of Ministers is effected by virtue of the Royal Decree of the King.
Art. 48. The choice of officials as heads of the various government departments, whether internal or foreign, subject to the approval of the responsible Minister, is the King’s right, save in such cases as are specifically excepted by the Law; but the appointment of other officials does not lie with the King, save in such cases as are explicitly provided for by the Law.
As you can see, it was the Shah who appointed and dismissed ministers, including the Prime Minister. In fact, the Shah had appointed Mosaddegh once before, in 1951. Mosaddegh later resigned in 1952. He was reappointed just a few weeks later.
Did you know that Mosaddegh’s resignation was over his demand to unconstitutionally seize the power to appoint the minister of war? That after his return to power he named himself to that position, thus controlling the armed forces?
Did you know that he engineered the Iranian parliament’s granting of dictatorial powers for a period of 6 months, later extended for another 12 after that?
Did you know that he tried to limit the vote of rural citizens, and stopped the completion of an election in 1952 before rural votes had been counted?
Did you know that Mosaddegh used an unconstitutional election as pretext to unconstitutionally dissolve the parliament?
Did you know that one of the two centers of his support were the mullahs, led by Ayatollah Kashani, one of Khomeini’s forerunners? And the other was the Tudeh Party, the communist party of Iran? Did you know that both redrew their support when he was ousted?
Did you know that the Shah never resigned in 1953, and was in fact the head of state in Iran throughout the whole affair?
The only coup in Iran in 1953 was Mossaddegh’s attempt to seize power and restore the rule of the Qajar Dynasty, of which he was a part of, and had opposed the installation of the Pahlavis in 1925.
It was in fact the Shah’s White Revolution of 1963 and Jimmy Carter’s withdrawal of support a decade later that fueled the Islamic Revolution of 1979, not the red herring of 1953.
“And we didn’t “overthrow” that government. We prevented the overthrow of that government. The Shah was in power legitimately.”
Hell has finally frozen over. I finally agree with you on something!
Halleluiah!
You would agree with me on everything if you knew what I knew.
I’m reminded of one of Ronald Reagan’s old lines.
“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so”
That applies to some in the right as well.
The point I was making is that in the context of your post you talked about not defending other countries and that the US should come first, with which I agreed even if I was deliberately being acerbic just to tally points in an argument...which I admit to.
Look, I get that you are passionate about your refusal to accept this actions and I can accept that, because I am just as passionate in support of it because I believe when people tell you they intend to kill you, it is wise to listen, in my opinion.
That you don’t feel that way is clear to me. I don’t want this discussion to progress to the point where we actually begin to resort to ad hominem attacks.
I will let you have the last word.
Another Trump-hating poll! Oh goodie!!!
Another Trump-hating poll! Oh goodie!!!
Another Trump-hating poll! Oh goodie!!!
It would help the necons' cheap propaganda effort a lot if the enemy of the week were industrial, economic, and military superpowers capable of conquering continents, rather than decrepit economies and militaries that can barely hold their own countries together. Nobody told the Mark Levins and Ben Shapiros of the world that if you're going to peddle lies while trying to stire up mass hysteria, at least try not to make them blatant lies.
“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so”
I quote that line a lot. :)
That applies to some in the right as well.
Very much so. I'm actually rather shocked about it.
Why was the CIA involved in anything to do with Iran in 1953?
I know, limit sphere of Soviet influence.
But it seems that the CIA involvement made things more challenging for Iran by virtue of their involvement in Iranian affairs.
The Soviet Union was heavily interfering in Iran’s affairs. Before that Imperial Russia was interfering, actually seizing modern day Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan. Between 1905 and 1911 Russian troops invaded Iran and dissolved the parliament.
Beyond that, pretty much every country interferes in the affairs of other nations to one degree or another. Half this forum thinks Israel runs Washington DC.
Would you bet $100 on a single roll of a six-sided die, at 6:1 odds? I would.
Would you do the same on a single round of Russian roulette, with the same odds? I sure wouldn’t … though I wouldn’t presume to speak for you.
A majority of Americans have very little grasp of real world situations, they live in the devils matrix.
I'll take that as an acknowledgement that the CIA did instigate a coup to overthrow the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED leader, so we'll take a quick look at what you seem to think is important.
I’ll give you a link. It’s an English translation of the Iranian constitution in force that the time:
Before we proceed, it's known that the constitution was frequently ignored at times throughout its effective existence.
As you can see, it was the Shah who appointed and dismissed ministers, including the Prime Minister.
How do you square that with holding elections, which resulted in installing a new government and left the Shah without any real power?
Did you know blah, blah, blah?
Sources, please? But before you waste my time with more revisionist nonsense, in what way would any of this justify our instigating a coup against their DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED LEADER?
If you can't answer that, then don't waste your time posting your sources.
The only coup in Iran in 1953 was Mossaddegh’s attempt to seize power and restore the rule of the Qajar Dynasty, of which he was a part of, and had opposed the installation of the Pahlavis in 1925.
Mossaddegh was elected in a democratic process, and his reforms were popular at the time. One of them, which was to nationalize the oil fields, was our reason for overthrowing him.
It was in fact the Shah’s White Revolution of 1963 and Jimmy Carter’s withdrawal of support a decade later that fueled the Islamic Revolution of 1979, not the red herring of 1953.
Oh, I see. The coup occurred in 1953, but the Iranians didn't become angry about it until after Carter withdrew his support. That makes sense.
It appears you’re unwilling to even look at the sources I’m giving you, let alone consider that the history we’ve been fed is not quite accurate. But I’ll be your huckleberry anyway, and respond to your remarks and answer your questions one by each. And since you’ve asked for sources, I am only too happy to oblige.
“I’ll take that as an acknowledgement that the CIA did instigate a coup to overthrow the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED leader, so we’ll take a quick look at what you seem to think is important.”
I’m not sure why you’d “take” that when I explicitly wrote that it was not a coup.
“Before we proceed, it’s known that the constitution was frequently ignored at times throughout its effective existence.”
Mosaddegh did just that. He demanded the right to appoint himself minister of war. He convened an extra constitutional rigged election to dissolve the legislature without a secret ballot, and dismissed the Supreme Court. “His former National Front allies called him a “worse dictator than Reza Shah.”
“How do you square that with holding elections, which resulted in installing a new government and left the Shah without any real power?
Perhaps you’re not aware of how elections work in a parliamentary system. The people don’t vote for ministers, they vote for their representatives. In the UK they’re called members of parliament. The party winning the most seats choose the prime minister, home secretary, etc.
Iran in 1950 had two houses, the Senate and the Majles. The Senate was akin to the House of Lords while the Majlis was more like the House of Commons in the UK. Half the members of the Senate were elected, the other half appointed by the Shah. Mosaddegh opposed the existence of the Senate and abolished it.
Same link as above.
Mosaddegh was elected to the Majlis.
“In February 1950 at the conclusion of elections for the 16th Majlis, the National Front took eight seats in the Majlis—Abol-Ghasem Kashani and Mosaddegh both won seats…”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950_Iranian_legislative_election
Having won the most seats, the National Front then voted Mosaddegh as prime minister AFTER the Shah appointed him. That right belonged to the Shah.
The Supplementary Fundamental Law of October 7, 1907
(as Amended December 12, 1925)
Article 46
The appointment and dismissal of Ministers is effected by the Royal Decree of the King.
https://irandataportal.syr.edu/wp-content/uploads/iran1925.pdf
“Did you know blah, blah, blah?
Sources, please? But before you waste my time with more revisionist nonsense, in what way would any of this justify our instigating a coup against their DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED LEADER?
If you can’t answer that, then don’t waste your time posting your sources.”
I’m not sure how one is expected to answer “blah, blah, blah” but I guess you choose to ignore the facts I presented to you.
“Mossadegh was elected in a democratic process, and his reforms were popular at the time.”
At the risk of invoking Goodwin’s Law, I will was point out that so was Hitler. And like the Führer, Mossadegh engineered dictatorial powers shortly after coming into office. It was the Iranians themselves who removed him. CIA efforts basically amounted to passing out money.
“One of them, which was to nationalize the oil fields, was our reason for overthrowing him.”
That nationalization led to the British pulling out their personnel and only Italy was willing to allow their people in to fill the void. Coupled with the British boycott oil production in Iran dropped drastically, with exports cratering to zero in 1953.
Mary Ann Heiss, “The International Boycott of Iranian Oil and the Anti-Mosaddeq Coup of 1953,” in, Mohammad Mosaddeq and the 1953 Coup in Iran, ed. Malcolm Byrne and Mark J. Gasiorowski (Syracuse, NY: Syracuse University Press, 2004), 178–200.
Mossadegh was unwilling to negotiate and the crippling result caused his support to wane. In that context it was the fear of a communist takeover that led Eisenhower to take action.
“…Allen Dulles, by then director of the CIA, contended that conditions in Iran had been steadily deteriorating since 1951, “building up…a situation where a Communist takeover is becoming more and more of a possibility.”
Whether that assessment was correct or not is easier to judge in hindsight. It was a perception at the time, and the communist Tudeh Party was active in 1953. The Soviet Union was at Iran’s doorstep and was active in undermining the anti-communist Shah. It in fact was a coalition of the reds and the mullahs that finally succeeded in 1979. The Tudeh people soon found themselves dangling on a rope suspended from cranes shortly thereafter.
“Oh, I see. The coup occurred in 1953, but the Iranians didn’t become angry about it until after Carter withdrew his support. That makes sense.”
No, they really became angry in 1963, when the Shah launched the so called “White Revolution.”
“And you have carried out your White Revolution in the midst of all this Black Reaction! What do you mean, a White Revolution? Why do you try to deceive the people so? Why do you threaten the people so?”
Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini
June 3, 1963
https://www.icit-digital.org/articles/the-afternoon-of-ashura-june-3-1963
That’s why that old devil was exiled in 1964. Incidentally, it was the Shah who spared his life and ordered exile instead of execution.
Iran was a roiling cauldron of competing factions and interests for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Nomadic tribesmen, strict clerics, merchants, and a few modern-minded leaders with experience in the wider world. This came to a head with the revolution of 1906, and the ouster of the Qajar Dynasty in 1925.
The Pahlavi Dynasty tried to modernize the country. They built roads, schools, hospitals, attempted land reform and even and eventually gave women the right to vote, before Switzerland did.
https://youtu.be/1iIpmZc2l4Q?si=MckSUonhg3hKvU4m
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_suffrage
This is the seed of Iran’s decent into Twelver Shia madness. Yes, the CIA conducted covert operations in Iran in 1953. So did MI6 and the KGB.
https://davidtownsend.substack.com/p/the-kgbs-invisible-hand-in-the-islamic
https://intelligencehistory.substack.com/p/mi6-tehran-station
The CIA did have a hand in Mossadegh’s fall from office. That’s not in dispute. The question is, was it a coup? A coup is defined as a sudden, illegal takeover of government power. The removal of Mossadegh was legal. It was effected by the farman, or Royal Decree, issued by the Shah. The government remained intact, as opposed to the 1979 Revolution that completely changed the Iranian system of government.
Why bring facts in when people can virtual signal with the “popular “ narrative.
I’m a glutton for punishment!
Ha!
” I believe when people tell you they intend to kill you, it is wise to listen, in my opinion.”
The problem is that your “two minutes of hate” is selective.
If the WH decided North Korea was the enemy of the moment would you be jumping on that bandwagon?
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