Many Catholics in the U.S. and Latin America Want the Church to Allow Birth Control and to Let Women Become Priests

pew research ^ | September 26, 2024 | Jonathan Evans and Kelsey Jo Starr

[daniel1212]

Most Catholics in all seven countries want the church to allow Catholics to use birth control.

In most of the countries surveyed, majorities of Catholics also say the church should allow women to become priests.

Opinion is more divided on whether the church should allow priests to get married.

Views on whether the church should recognize the marriages of gay and lesbian couples vary among Catholics in the countries surveyed.

Ten years ago, nearly all Catholics surveyed there (98%) expressed a favorable opinion of Francis, compared with 74% today.

[boatbums]

>>My understanding is that they are OT books and not recognized as Scripture by the Jews. Therefore, they would not qualify as Scripture.<<

Then your understanding is wrong. At the time of our Lord the Jews accepted the entire Pentateuch. It was only latter that they restricted the Scriptures to those books written in Hebrew. Then again, they also rejected the entire New Testament.

The Pentateuch is only the first five books of the Hebrew Old Testament. They are known as the Books of Moses and the Torah. Did you mean the Septuagint?

Here is some information about the Septuagint that explains how the Jews and early Christians came to accept the writings that make up what is called the Christian Bible: What is the Septuagint?

>>Who get s to decide? Well, anyone can add any books they want to the Bible, but that doesn't make them Scripture in the classic sense.<<

But who gets to decide what is Scripture in the classic sense? Christianity had a consensus on the Bible for 1500 years until the Protestants remove the Deuterocanonical / Apocryphal books.

I know you think you are defending the Roman Catholic recognition of the Deuterocanonical/Apocryphal books as equal to the Divinely-inspired Old and New Testament books accepted by ALL Christian traditions, but you are misinformed about many points here. Here is an additional link that will help:

What are the Apocrypha/Deuterocanonical Books?

This will also be helpful to explain why the Apocryphal books were not counted as in the canon of the Bible:

The Canon of Scripture

The Apocrypha

Luther's View of the Canon

[metmom]

ut who gets to decide what is Scripture in the classic sense? Christianity had a consensus on the Bible for 1500 years until the Protestants remove the Deuterocanonical / Apocryphal books.

Of course there's going to be consensus when only one opinion is allowed.

We see that even today in much of the climate change and ToF fraud being perpetrated on us. Dissenting opinions are simply not permitted.

Claiming there's consensus when the Catholic church had a monopoly on Scripture and only permitted one viewpoint is meaningless.

[metmom]

Still avoiding the fact that Paul said that God will repay everyone according to his works and that he warns that those who remain in sin will not enter the kingdom of God.

Repaying people with reward of lack of it.

Not salvation of the lack of it.

If salvation can be gained by what you do or lost by what you do (sin) or don't do (works) then it's NOT a free gift of God's grace.

You're working for your salvation and that WILL fail.

Galatians 3:10-14 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Interjecting works or lack thereof into the equation brings condemnation.

Hey, but you've been shown the verses and if choose to still depend on your own efforts to either do the good or not do the sin, well, good luck with that.

Because even if you were capable of leading an absolutely pure, sin free life for the rest of your life, you would still not make it into heaven because of the magnitude of the sin debt you already have stacked against you.

Unless you accept Jesus offer of eternal life and have that sin debt canceled.

[Petrosius]

Yes, I meant the Deuterocanonical books.

[Petrosius]

The consensus was arrived at in the early centuries and confirmed in the 4th. But if you complain that this confirmation in the 4th century stifled debate, you are left with the question, “who decides?” Without the authority of the Church, which I believe comes from God, there is no authority. We are thus left without assurance of what is and what is not Scripture. And how can an uncertain canon of Scripture be an infallible rule of faith? Do you not see the dilemma?

[unread]

Ah yes, sin is SO much fun....

[metmom]

I have addressed it. I do not think that our Lord was being legalistic about the use of a word, a word that Paul applied to himself.

Paul never addressed himself as *Father Paul*, nor did anyone else in Scripture.

It staggers the mind the rationalization Catholics use to justify disobeying a clear, concise, direct command of Jesus.

[Elsie]

bingo

[Elsie]

You lose it by UNBELIEF.

[Elsie]

All of FR would know - if it’s posted.

[Elsie]

Habakkuk 2:4  New Revised Standard Version

 

Look at the proud! Their spirit is not right in them, but the righteous live by their faith.   

 

 

 

 

Galatians 3   King James Version

 

 

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

 

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

 

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

 

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

 

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

 

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of  the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

 

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

 

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

 

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

 

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

 

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

 

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

 

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith .

 

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[Elsie]

Ah, the assumed trump card when Protestants start loosing an argument.

Ah,the standard SOP when Catholics are confronted with Scripture - claim the Prots are LOOSING.

[Elsie]

And following the Pharisees, they take a legalistic view of Scripture and salvation.

And following the Mormons, JWs, SDA folks, they take an inadequate view of Scripture and it's insufficent ability to get a person saved and into heaven.salvation.

[metmom]

But a believer believes so doesn’t have unbelief.

[Elsie]

Thanks for proving you do not read.

The claim was about the TITLE , Father.

[Elsie]

What point?

Paul wrote Scripture - Rome wrote your catechism book.

[metmom]

Better be careful.

You’ll be accused of cherry picking verses if you post a whole chapter’s worth of stuff.

[Elsie]

Ignoring all the passages that clearly state that we will be judged by our works,

Of course we ignore them, when they are not pertinent to SALVATION!

[metmom]

Gee, I didn’t know that believing what the word says and obeying it is legalism.

That’s what Catholics keep telling us to do.

[Elsie]

Paul states that he is speaking specifically of circumcision...

Like when JESUS is speaking specifically of calling no man father?