Posted on 10/25/2024 11:40:48 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
The kernel of the long-awaited “victory plan” for Ukraine that President Volodymyr Zelensky introduced this fall goes something like this: If you give me what I’ve been asking for — membership in NATO and permission to fire Western missiles deep into Russian territory — I could end the war by next year.
The demands are not in themselves new. The urgency is in the timing: The American election, and what President Biden does before he leaves office, will have serious consequences for the trajectory of the Russia-Ukraine war.
Actual membership in NATO is not in the cards for Ukraine until the war is over. The Atlantic alliance has already declared that Ukraine is on an “irreversible” path to membership, but that is as far as it is likely to go for now. Firing NATO missiles deep into Russia, however, is something a growing number of members have signaled they would allow.
Not Mr. Biden, at least not yet. NATO weapons striking inside Russia, he fears, would take Western participation in the war to a new level. It would also cross a red line that Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, has drawn. Long-range strikes against Russia, Mr. Putin has declared, “will mean that NATO countries — the United States and European countries — are at war with Russia.”
A growing chorus of NATO members disagree, and have urged the United States to give Ukraine the green light. Russia, they argue, has no compunctions about using weapons from China, North Korea or Iran against Ukraine. “Are you telling me that Putin is not using — is not throwing — everything he has at Ukraine?” Poland’s foreign minister, Radoslaw Sikorski, said in a recent interview with The Wall Street Journal.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
WWIII? Russia can’t even take Ukraine in 3 years... They don’t have enough of anything to fight such a war. China would not waste its troops or anything on Russia. They would take part of eastern Russia if Russia gets weak enough.
There’s a lot of stuff Joe could do in the three months he has left. Not just Ukraine, but Gaza, Taiwan, Moldova...
And not just international. He could loose a string of EO’s or “regulations” that could hamstring the economy. Or open the treasury and spark our return to the runaway inflation that finally bankrupts us. IOW, He could go scorched earth nationally, too.
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one could say with brandon enabling DOD to use lethal force against US Citizens now, I’d go ahead and include the USA along with Ukraine, Gaza, Taiwan as FJB’s direct conflict hot spots
:: IOW, He could go scorched earth nationally, too. ::
After how hard he got screwed, I would expect this if Kamala wins.
We have escalated things to the limit.
Trying to take things any further in order to salvage our war effort in Ukraine will lead to a greater regional war or even possibly a nuclear exchange.
Our latest great idea, providing Ukraine deep strike capabilities, is the perfect example. Of course, had we done this, Russia would have retaliated by firing back into central and Western Europe.
How much are we willing to pay to save Ukraine and I’m not talking about more money and military hardware as in the past? Are we willing to cause a major war with Russia and pay in blood, or even cause a nuclear exchange and end our own nation? What is required to “maybe” tip the balance in our favor regards Ukraine would require risking that.
We gambled with NATO East expansion and lost.
We should have cut our losses as soon as this happened. That would have been the prudent thing to do. But like a gambler at a casino that is losing money, people often get into the mentality of wanting to win their money back, and they can’t let it go.
The concept of “cutting ones losses” is often mistakenly seen as appeasement or weakness. It’s not. It’s just minimizing the damage.
When this war ends, Ukraine will lose a lot of land (~16+%), a major industrial area, the core of their steel industry and a major port city. They will not be in NATO and even their chances for EU membership (well in reach before the war) will have vaporized before their eyes. EU membership is just talk, no one wants such a liability in the union, Ukraine at this point can’t meet the most basic requirements. Ukraine’s infrastructure will be heavily damaged, their economy destroyed (-37% GDP & massive debt) and the demographics are record breaking bad (refugees that left, low birth rate, dead and crippled).
This should have never happened: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/ (NATO East expansion into Ukraine)
And when we did push it to the point where it caused a war, it should have been settled right away: Istanbul deal, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Throwing good money after bad: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/to-throw-good-money-after-bad
“If we just gamble with even higher stakes and play one more game, maybe then we’ll turn things around in our favor!” If someone who had just lost their @ss in a casino tells you this, what what you think about their decision making?
Stop!!!
You are both wrong. This long war fought mostly in cities has had less civilian deaths than any previous NATO or Western intervention. Death for death, it is the west who has shown little regard for life in reality since Clinton’s NATO excursions beginning in 93.
But don’t let get in way of blind hate, it is the creeping hallmark of the DNC and infects one and all eventually. I personally democrats as a result. Those who the democrats put in the crosshairs not so much.
Short memory and COVID... no seems to remember the flush of articles about how each and every department attending the Biden staff meetings was doing their own thing, with no leadership and no one to tell them no. Each agency of government was on autopilot with no central leadership. The deep state is what we frequently call this cabel, but today we are back to blaming the president.
Point every finger at the DNC. They are running the White House. Obama is cutting his ties. Dr. Jill will be left to hold the bag on the Secret Service and every other failing as if magically no actual politicans or elected officals were responsible for Amerika’s debacles.
So, You are calling Trump a liar. Got it.
If that’s the way you see it. I prefer to say he is in deep state dodo and now way out reasonably. Trump’s hands will be tied on this one, and he can’t get a peace deal at this juncture. It’s gone too far for that. It is not that Putin doesn’t trust Trump, it’s just that Trump cannot control events. Putin is going to have to level Kiev and there’s not one damn thing the EU will do about as the US drops Project Ukraine. Zelinski has ensured there can be no peace while he is president dicatator living abroad, never Ukraine except to met a foreign leader and then jetting off to some safe place away from Ukraine.
Trump is not inclined to help Ukraine with Zelinski at the head of the country. Never forget Zelinski helped pull off the Impeachment’s against Trump. So YES Trump is lying and will make damn sure Ukraine doesn’t get his help.
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