Indiana Legend Says Welsh Settlers Arrived in the 12th Century

Los Angeles Times ^ | September 3, 1989 | Jodi Perras

[SunkenCiv]

On a rugged bluff overlooking the Ohio River, known locally as "Devil's Backbone," centuries of overgrowth obscures a secret of history... In 1799, early settlers found six skeletons clad in breastplates bearing a Welsh coat of arms. Indian legends told of "yellow-haired giants" who settled in Kentucky, southern Indiana, southern Ohio and Tennessee -- a region they called "the Dark and Forbidden Land." Archeologists debunk the legend. They say that evidence indicates that the natives of the region once conducted a vigorous trading network nearby and buried their dead on the bluff... Upstream about 14 miles from Louisville, Ky., the craggy hill rises abruptly from the Indiana bank. Fourteen Mile Creek runs behind the hill, carving out a narrow strip of land between the creek and the river... The earliest survey of the area, done in 1873 by state geologist E. T. Cox and his assistant, William Borden, found a prehistoric fortification on the hilltop. A man-made limestone wall, 150 feet long and 75 feet high in some places, stood along the front and one side of the hill where the cliffs could be scaled... The wall no longer exists, the area's early settlers having taken the huge, unmortared stones to build foundations, bridges and fences that can still be seen throughout the rolling countryside. Local legend says the walls were built by followers of Prince Madoc of Wales, who led an expedition in the late 12th Century and was never seen again. Tradition says they landed in America and settled briefly in Tennessee, then moved to Kentucky and southern Indiana. "In my opinion, you couldn't find a better legend than this," said Dana Olson of Jeffersonville, an amateur historian and author of "Prince Madoc: Founder of Clark County, Indiana."

[SunkenCiv]

the Madoc legend also has survived in the south, attributed to the Cherokee.

[snip] an effigy of The Moon-Eyed People -- a race of crypto-humans that were blinded by daylight but able to see in moonlight. They lived in what is now western North Carolina centuries ago. "They were a legend of the Cherokee," said Wanda. "The Moon-Eyed People were supposed to be people who only came out at night. They were light-skinned and had big blue eyes." [/snip] -- The Moon-Eyed People

[gattaca]

bmp

[CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC]

“Yellow-haired giants”? Sounds more Viking than Welsh. The Vikings made it at least to Eastern Canada where short-lived settlements have been found, and explored probably at least as far as the New England, if the “Vinland” descriptions of grapes are correct. The Vikings first raided Wales in the 800’s, and could have brought some Welsh artifacts with them, or Welsh slaves. Though it’s quite a stretch to think they made it that far as Kentucky.

[SunkenCiv]

North West View -- Jimmie Lee Robbins wrote: ". . . looking out from the North West side of the Mountain. This is typical of the land around the summit except for the side that has the Stone Wall. The South side is the only place that would need protection." Some authorities feel certain this wall was built Prince Madoc and his followers as a defensive structure while others argue with equal certainty that the wall was built by native North American Indians for religious and/or astromical purposes. Unfortunately, no artifacts have been found. For further details, please visit Georgia's Fort Mountain. -- Prince Madoc

[SunkenCiv]

Historians delight in debunking the Madoc story, pointing out Penrhyn Bay, Rhos-on-Sea on the North Wales coast, where Madoc was supposed to have set sail, was far too shallow for a ship big enough to cross the Atlantic. Yet, during excavations for a garden for a Rhos-on-Sea home, remains of an ancient harbour were discovered... The challenge is obtaining permission to test Native American bone samples that pre-date Columbus. Kimberley has found an ally in a Shawnee "wisdom-keeper" named Ken Lonewolf... "Our last Shawnee leader was named Chief White Madoc; this name must have been passed down for many generations," says Lonewolf. "This was our chief who sold our village to white settlers in the late 1790s. This is not a figment of my imagination, but a matter of county court record dating to the late 1790's or early 1800's." DNA tests have already determined that Lonewolf and Kimberley, whose female ancestors are Welsh, share the mitochondrial (female) DNA. "Now there's a coincidence," says Kimberley. "What we can't prove is when Lonewolf acquired a Welsh ancestor." ...David Klausner, professor of English and Medieval studies at the University of Toronto, calls the Madoc story "persistent" but favours the theory that the Elizabethans or the Tudor kings of England invented it for political gain. But early Celtic narrative does mention legendary voyages to the Western Isles, says Klausner... also points out that the stories of Norse voyagers discovering Vinland were thought to be myths until the discovery of L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland. [Will DNA turn Madoc myth into reality? | Roberta Avery | July 22, 2007 | Toronto Star]

[SunkenCiv]

The Moon-Eyed People
by Eve Fisher
20 July 2017
http://www.sleuthsayers.org/2017/07/the-moon-eyed-people.html

[SunkenCiv]

Tinypic dumped the old logo, apparently, or changed the danged URL, very helpful. Soooo, after four years it may be time to try one of those I'd worked on in the past. Here's one now.

[SunkenCiv]

Probably the Frost-giant’s twin sons.

http://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/conan/images/2/22/Frank_Frazetta_-_The_Frost-Giant%27s_Daughter.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/180?cb=20120304202626

[dp0622]

Either way, there went the neighborhood :)

But we could use some vikings in Northwestern Europe today!

[SunkenCiv]

Somewhere nearby there’s also an abandoned amusement park called, hmm Rose Island I think. Supposedly there are still handcranked boxes that, when turned, play a record inside describing an attraction (one box for each attraction). Meanwhile...

Eerie Indiana
Saturday, March 1, 2014
Abandoned Fourteen Mile Creek Bridges and INAAP - Charlestown, Indiana
http://eerie-indiana.blogspot.com/2014/03/abandoned-fourteen-mile-creek-bridges.html

[SunkenCiv]

I wholeheartedly agree with your tagline.

[dp0622]

Thank you.

We would have NO CHOICE as it would effectively have been a coup.

[SunkenCiv]

Rose Island was ruined by the 57 foot flood in 1937; interesting info and pics:
https://www.louisville.com/content/ghosts-rose-island

http://eerie-indiana.blogspot.com/2013/05/abandoned-rose-island-amusement-park.html

Pool was (is) 110x42 feet:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EzXm9KmGzzQ/UZlcDOo0xhI/AAAAAAAAALY/Crnnzc4Pk8Y/s1600/DSCF5012.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-waixcqhR0WE/UZlgq76VJAI/AAAAAAAAAMI/08ma4hewir8/s1600/IMG_6002.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qLx9t0GZVUk/UeJbsjMQ-6I/AAAAAAAAAws/eN-H6JqvvXs/s1600/pool2.jpg

http://eerie-indiana.blogspot.com/search/label/Indiana%20Army%20Ammunition%20Plant

http://eerie-indiana.blogspot.com/search/label/Charlestown

[OwenKellogg]

The old stomping grounds!

[SunkenCiv]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Backbone_(rock_formation)

https://www.in.gov/dnr/parklake/2986.htm

http://www.charlestownlandingcommunity.com/Charlestown%20State%20Park%20Master%20Plan%20View.htm

http://www.charlestownlandingcommunity.com/charlestownlandingareaRV.jpg

http://www.google.com/search?q=Charlestown+State+Park&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&tbm=isch

[PIF]

Sounds like a story that might be covered in Ancient American.

[SunkenCiv]

Yeah, perhaps it’s been in there.

[thinden]

BBB

[Fhios]

With steady weather and fair winds the trip from Europe to the U.S can be done in 30 days by the best ships of that era. Modern high tech sailboats can do it in 5 days under the right conditions.

A bit less than 3000 nm. The only limiting factor would be human fear of unchartered waters. The Norse had it better because by taking the northernmost sub arctic route they would see landfall often enough to brave it. They however didn’t have the best ships for the voyage.

[oldvirginian]

Wales is still discovering it’s involvement with the Vikings.

“This one-sided historical record of Vikings terrorising the land has now been transformed by archaeology. Viking contact was certainly hostile and brutal at times, but often opportunist. In some areas, they rapidly settled as peaceful farmers, and archaeology has provided evidence for them as colonisers, merchants, and skilled craftsmen.
The nature of Viking settlement in Wales remains one of the mysteries of early medieval archaeology, none more so than on Anglesey. This is emphasised when the Viking measurement of ‘a day’s sail’ is plotted from the Isle of Man, Dublin, Chester and the Wirral, for they all intersect in Anglesey waters.”
https://museum.wales/articles/2007-04-02/When-the-Vikings-invaded-North-Wales/

Hard to say if the Viking/Welsh made it as far as Kentucky but if anyone could have, they were it.