'Extraordinary' genetic make-up of north-east Wales men

BBC ^ | 19 July 2011 | BBC

[Palter]

Experts are asking people from north-east Wales to provide a DNA sample to discover why those from the area carry rare genetic make-up.

So far, 500 people have taken part in the study which shows 30% of men carry an unusual type of Y chromosome, compared to 1% of men elsewhere the UK.

Common in Mediterranean men, it was initially thought to suggest Bronze Age migrants 4,000 years ago.

Sheffield University scientists explain the study at Wrexham Science Festival. 'Quite extraordinary'

A team of scientists, led by Dr Andy Grierson and Dr Robert Johnston, from the University of Sheffield is trying to find out how and why this has come about.

Dr Grierson is leading the talk at Glyndŵr University on Tuesday and wants to speak to people with ancestry in the region to discover what is known about their family history - and to provide them with an opportunity to contribute a DNA sample to the project.

"The number of people in north-east Wales with this genetic make-up is quite extraordinary," he said.

"This type of genetic make-up is usually found in the eastern Mediterranean which made us think that there might have been strong connections between north-east Wales and this part of Europe somewhere in the past.

"But this appears not to be the case, so we're still looking to find out why it's happened and what it reveals about the history of the region."

[martin_fierro]

	Genetic Genealogy >> PING <<
Send FReepmail if you want on/off GGP list Marty = Paternal Haplogroup O(2?)(M175) Maternal Haplogroup H
GG LINKS: African Ancestry DNAPrint Genomics FamilyTree DNA GeneTree Int'l Society of Genetic Genealogy mitosearch Nat'l Geographic Genographic Project Oxford Ancestors RelativeGenetics Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation Trace Genetics ybase ysearch
The List of Ping Lists

h/t to SunkenCiv

[wildbill]

Praise be to Allah, this proves the Palestinians were in existence way before the Jews but were driven out of their homeland to Wales by the invading oppressors.

All your Welsh women are belong to us.

[James C. Bennett]

Oh... LOL!

Thanks!

[Ditter]

bump for later

[Hawthorn]

Nice tree, but I can’t find Albanian amongst the branches. Am I overlooking something?

[Hawthorn]

John McWhorter makes a good case that the Phoenecians exercised a strong influence on the proto-Germanic language. So if they left grammar and/or vocabulary, why not DNA? See:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UGOMfGDT3KkC&pg=PT105&lpg=PT105&dq=phoenicians+%22proto-germanic%22&source=bl&ots=9esVNCKZXa&sig=8HCgOvFcFZ1i2eYz05Sv3G0_Zdw&hl=en&ei=RkMsTrOKJcjm0QGk7rzkDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=phoenicians%20%22proto-germanic%22&f=false

[Palter]

Indeed.

See :Sea Peoples invade: 1192–1190 BC

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Compare the Welsh to the Irish and Scots.

[EBH]

Gavin Henson, Welsh Rugby Player ..

This is a thread about Welsh MEN DNA....

Gethin Jones

[americanophile]

...and you didn’t even have a half-million dollar research grant.

[BroJoeK]

Palter quoting article: "Common in Mediterranean men, it was initially thought to suggest Bronze Age migrants 4,000 years ago."

quoting further:

"This type of genetic make-up is usually found in the eastern Mediterranean which made us think that there might have been strong connections between north-east Wales and this part of Europe somewhere in the past.

But this appears not to be the case, so we're still looking to find out why it's happened and what it reveals about the history of the region."

The article gives no explanation for why their original assumptions of 4,000 year old, Bronze Age -- think Stone Henge -- connections are now rejected.

Careful DNA analysis might suggest when those connections were first made, and this in turn provide the beginnings of understanding.

I would suggest that, without some solid evidence to the contrary, researchers should not automatically rule out Bronze Age.

There was more going on in those times than we really understand today.

[PapaBear3625]

I've worked with a lot of Indians over the years. It's not just a language thing. We do think in the same patterns. The engineering solutions to problems are indistinguishable. Solutions that Chinese, Vietnamese, Philippine or Japanese engineers come up with, although perfectly valid, just 'feel' different. Don't know why.

India was invaded by the Aryans of Central Asia, who likely had a lot in common with the Celtic people who went on to settle Europe.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Is this genetic marker what causes them to spell ‘funny’?

;^)

[James C. Bennett]

You’re right - Albanian is missing. I’ve read that it its own, distinct branch.

[blam]

"The article gives no explanation for why their original assumptions of 4,000 year old, Bronze Age -- think Stone Henge -- connections are now rejected. "

Tests Reveal Amesbury Archer "King Of Stonehenge' Was A Settler From The Alps

[blam]

"India was invaded by the Aryans of Central Asia, who likely had a lot in common with the Celtic people who went on to settle Europe. "

Tocharians

"The Tocharians were the easternmost speakers of an Indo-European language in antiquity, inhabiting the Tarim basin in what is now Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, northwestern People's Republic of China. Their unique culture spanned from the 1st millennium BCE to the end of the 1st millennium CE. Their language is called Tocharian."

"The Knights With The Long Swords"

This is the Gansu Province of China and a handful of Caucasian only graveyards there were still being used into the 1300's. (The Chinese didn't show up in this region until about 200BC...they were the late-comers)

[Sherman Logan]

India was invaded by the Aryans of Central Asia, who likely had a lot in common with the Celtic people who went on to settle Europe.

Posting such an idea can get you seriously flamed on some sites.

There is a whole group of Indians who for some obscure reason believe that saying the Aryans invaded India from Central Asia in the distant past is somehow insulting to India. They instead prefer a scenario where the Aryan languages originated in India and went west from there.

This is despite the fairly obvious fact that we have archaelogical and historical evidence of dozens of invasions of India from the northwest and exactly none going the other way.

I've never understood why they react this way, as the most common theories have the Italics, Greeks, Celts and other Indo-Europeans originating outside (western) Europe just as much as they do outside India.

[BroJoeK]

blam: "Tests Reveal Amesbury Archer "King Of Stonehenge' Was A Settler From The Alps"

Thanks for the interesting link. I note your long interest in the subject.

Somewhere I once read about Bronze Age trade between Britain and the Mediterranean, even Minoans of Crete.
Their interest is said to have been British tin.

Here is a link showing Bronze Age connections between Crete, Spain and Britain.

None of which, of course, proves anything about Welsh DNA.
It only suggests that Bronze Age connections should not be ruled out, a priori.

Andelusia, Spain, Bronze Age fortress:

Minoan ships:

[blam]

Thanks, a very interesting link.

Here is an excellent book that I highly recommend:

The Origins Of The British

[Mercat]

hysterical