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1 posted on 05/22/2008 10:44:05 AM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

By “Old English” do you mean the version of English that uses “he” as a neutral pronoun and uses “man” to refer gnerically to humans?


2 posted on 05/22/2008 10:47:20 AM PDT by Notwithstanding ("You are either with America in our time of need or you are not" - Hillary from Senate well 9/12/01)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

Well, I know enough that Vs were used for both v and u. So then trvste becomes trust with an e added. Ys were used as Is so that somtyme then can be read as sometime. Some of the words are totally incomprehensible to me however. Sorry:)


3 posted on 05/22/2008 10:50:11 AM PDT by calex59
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
Here's your guy:

Richard Lederer

http://www.verbivore.com/askrl.htm

4 posted on 05/22/2008 10:50:20 AM PDT by Doomonyou (Let them eat lead.)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

5 posted on 05/22/2008 10:52:01 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Bipartisanship: Two wolves and the American people deciding what's for dinner)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

I’m definitely not an expert at all, but that looks more like Middle English than Old English to me.

Old English is often intelligible to those familiar with modern english, and is more germanic and celtic than english (take a look at the Beowulf manuscript for an example.)

In Middle English, you can make out most of the words, which I can here.


6 posted on 05/22/2008 10:52:01 AM PDT by bamahead (Avoid self-righteousness like the devil- nothing is so self-blinding. -- B.H. Liddell Hart)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
I'm no expert, but I do own an Oxford English Dictionary.

Some of the v's are really u's.

"feofee" isn't in there but "feoffee" is. So you have to hunt around. Most decent libraries have an OED. (I'm referring to the 20 volume set.)

ML/NJ

7 posted on 05/22/2008 10:52:01 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

“Man here thov mayste yntombed see a man of honest fame come home to earthe who in life bare Willm Cantrell name a gentleman in birth in life in ofice and degre now wrapte in clay then thincke oh man what shall becom of the this Willm Cantrell feofee was with others put in trvste regarded well for vertvovs life wise sorertrev and lvste even of the whole revennes of that mighty prince of the late Thomas Dvke of Norfolke highte somtyme of high estate”

Man, here thou mayest entombed see a man of honest fame come home to earth who in life bore the name William Cantrell. A gentleman in birth, in life, in office and degree now wrapped in clay. Then think oh man what shall become of this William Cantrell’s feofee was put in trust with others. Regarded well for a virtuous life, [unknown] and lust, even of the whole revenues of that mighty prince, of the late Thomas, Duke of Norfolk, the height sometimes of high estate.

Best I can do. BTW feofee is an investment made by someone into a fief, as though the fief were a corporation.


8 posted on 05/22/2008 10:52:09 AM PDT by Little Pig (Is it time for "Cowboys and Muslims" yet?)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

Looks like this William Cantrell was a member of the rural gentry who held some sort of office of trust under the Duke of Norfolk involving the revenues of his estate???


10 posted on 05/22/2008 10:54:38 AM PDT by Argus (Obama: All turban and no goats.)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

May want to check this out...

Middle English Dictionary:

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/med/


11 posted on 05/22/2008 10:55:31 AM PDT by bamahead (Avoid self-righteousness like the devil- nothing is so self-blinding. -- B.H. Liddell Hart)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

Not sure I have the right Willm Cantrell but this...
http://www.genuki.org.uk:8080/big/eng/LIN/Heckington/heckington_burials_1561.pdf

shows he died in 1571. Wife died in 1571.

FWIW.


12 posted on 05/22/2008 10:56:57 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (Typical White Person)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

fwiw, that’s not OE. That text is centuries after Chaucer, which was also not OE. That’s Shakespearean era. Incidentally, if he knew the Duke of Norfolk, he knew my ancestor who was his adviser, Robert Pace.


16 posted on 05/22/2008 11:10:05 AM PDT by mikeus_maximus (We don't need a Ferengi President!)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

Wan that abril weth the suerth surte,

the drougth of March is pirced to the roothe


17 posted on 05/22/2008 11:11:29 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . The Bitcons will elect a Democrat by default)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
Man here thov mayste yntombed see a man of honest fame come home to earthe who in life bare Willm Cantrell name a gentleman in birth in life in ofice and degre now wrapte in clay then thincke oh man what shall becom of the this Willm Cantrell feofee was with others put in trvste regarded well for vertvovs life wise sorertrev and lvste even of the whole revennes of that mighty prince of the late Thomas Dvke of Norfolke highte somtyme of high estate

Looks like a obituary or grave marker. I'm not an expert but I have done some study. This also does not appear to be actual old English but rather more late middle to early modern English. Think, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. I would translate as:
,
; Man here thou may entomb, see a man of honest fame (report), come home to earth, who in life, barred (carried the) William Cantrell name.

A gentleman in birth, in life, in office (job), and degree (education or knowledge), now wrapped in clay (buried). Then think oh man, "what shall become of this William Cantrell, Trustee"(legal title) was, with others, placed in trust. Regarded well for virtuous life, wise sorertrev (disposition ??), and lvste (??) even of the whole revenues of that mighty prince of the late (recently died) Thomas Dyke of Norfolk Heights, sometime (or temporary) of high estate (net worth).

19 posted on 05/22/2008 11:17:45 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
I think it's Middle English. Old English looks like this:

Fæder úre, ðú ðe eart on heofonum, Sí ðín nama gehálgod. Tó becume ðín rice. Gewurde ðín willa On eorþan swá swá on heofonum. Urne dægwhamlícan hlaf syle ús tódæg. And forgyf ús úre gyltas, Swá swá wé forgyfaþ úrum gyltendum. And ne gelæd ðu ús on costnunge, Ac álýs ús of yfele. Sóþlice.

20 posted on 05/22/2008 11:18:47 AM PDT by Jim Noble (May 17 was my Tenth Anniversary on FR)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

Man here thov mayste yntombed see a man of honest fame come home to earthe who in life bare Willm Cantrell name a gentleman in birth in life in ofice and degre now wrapte in clay then thincke oh man what shall becom of the this Willm Cantrell feofee was with others put in trvste regarded well for vertvovs life wise sorertrev and lvste even of the whole revennes of that mighty prince of the late Thomas Dvke of Norfolke highte somtyme of high estate

Actually, it is more Middle English and I believe it says:

The man who lies entombed here was an honest man who has come home to [rest in] the earth who in life bore the name William Cantrell. He was a gentleman by birth [nobleman?] in office [politician?] and degree [education?] and is now wrapped in the clay. Then think, oh man, what shall become of this Willian Cantrell? For he was was with others put in trust, regarded well for the virtuous life, wise [council?], and [lust?] even to the whole revenues of that mighty prince
Thomas Duke of Norfolk Heights, sometime of High Estate.


21 posted on 05/22/2008 11:20:24 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
It's not Old English, it's Middle English.

The earliest it could possibly have been is 1400, about two hundred years after the Old English period.

I'll modernize:

"Man, here you may see entombed a man of honest fame come home to earth who in life bore the name of William Cantrell - a gentleman by birth, in life, and in office and degree - now wrapped in clay. Think then, O man, what shall become of you. This William Cantrell was the owner, along with others, of an estate placed in trust. [He was] well regarded for his virtuous life, wise sorertrev and lvste [this is obscure and I have a couple of possible interpretations] of all the revenues of that mighty prince, the late Thomas Duke of Norfolk, formerly called of high estate [considered to be very powerful]."

Thomas de Mowbray, the first Duke of Norfolk, was stripped of his lands and title in 1399 - if he was "late" as of this inscription, it can only be 1400 at the earliest if legitimate.

22 posted on 05/22/2008 11:21:29 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
That's not old English, that's not even Middle English. It's Early Modern English.

Here's some Old English for you:

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas.
Old English is just a little bit more difficult to decipher...
25 posted on 05/22/2008 11:24:00 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
Can anyone help translate some of this Old english?

"I am registered to vote in Chicago."

27 posted on 05/22/2008 11:31:17 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("Code Pink should guard against creating stereotypes in the Mincing Community." --Titan Magroyne)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
Has no one else noticed it rhymes?

“Man here thov mayste yntombed see a man of honest fame,
Come home to earthe who in life bare Willm Cantrell name,
A gentleman in birth in life in ofice and degre,
Now wrapte in clay then thincke oh man what shall becom of the,
This Willm Cantrell feofee was with others put in trvste,
Regarded well for vertvovs life wise sorertrev and lvste
Even of the whole revennes of that mighty prince of the late
Thomas Dvke of Norfolke highte somtyme of high estate”

35 posted on 05/22/2008 11:51:29 AM PDT by T Minus Four
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

Man, here thou mayest entombed see a man of honest fame come home to earth, who in life bore the name William Cantrell: a gentleman in birth, in life, in office and degree, now wrapped in clay. Then think, oh man, what shall become of thee.

This William Cantrell, fiefholder, was with others put in trust (regarded well for virtuous life, wise, sober, true, and just) even of the whole revenues of that mighty prince, the late Thomas, Duke of Norfolk, hight sometime of high estate.

[Hight=called.]


39 posted on 05/22/2008 11:59:46 AM PDT by Poet-Sirrah
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