Posted on 05/22/2008 10:44:04 AM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom
Can anyone help translate some of this Old english? It is from a transcription on a tomb my wife did a rubbing of for a friend who is tracing his ancestry.
Man here thov mayste yntombed see a man of honest fame come home to earthe who in life bare Willm Cantrell name a gentleman in birth in life in ofice and degre now wrapte in clay then thincke oh man what shall becom of the this Willm Cantrell feofee was with others put in trvste regarded well for vertvovs life wise sorertrev and lvste even of the whole revennes of that mighty prince of the late Thomas Dvke of Norfolke highte somtyme of high estate
Some of the words were unclear even looking straight at the tomb so it may not be perfect but perhaps you can figure it out. Thanks.
Man here thov mayste yntombed see a man of honest fame come home to earthe who in life bare Willm Cantrell name a gentleman in birth in life in ofice and degre now wrapte in clay then thincke oh man what shall becom of the this Willm Cantrell feofee was with others put in trvste regarded well for vertvovs life wise sorertrev and lvste even of the whole revennes of that mighty prince of the late Thomas Dvke of Norfolke highte somtyme of high estate
Actually, it is more Middle English and I believe it says:
The man who lies entombed here was an honest man who has come home to [rest in] the earth who in life bore the name William Cantrell. He was a gentleman by birth [nobleman?] in office [politician?] and degree [education?] and is now wrapped in the clay. Then think, oh man, what shall become of this Willian Cantrell? For he was was with others put in trust, regarded well for the virtuous life, wise [council?], and [lust?] even to the whole revenues of that mighty prince
Thomas Duke of Norfolk Heights, sometime of High Estate.
The earliest it could possibly have been is 1400, about two hundred years after the Old English period.
I'll modernize:
"Man, here you may see entombed a man of honest fame come home to earth who in life bore the name of William Cantrell - a gentleman by birth, in life, and in office and degree - now wrapped in clay. Think then, O man, what shall become of you. This William Cantrell was the owner, along with others, of an estate placed in trust. [He was] well regarded for his virtuous life, wise sorertrev and lvste [this is obscure and I have a couple of possible interpretations] of all the revenues of that mighty prince, the late Thomas Duke of Norfolk, formerly called of high estate [considered to be very powerful]."
Thomas de Mowbray, the first Duke of Norfolk, was stripped of his lands and title in 1399 - if he was "late" as of this inscription, it can only be 1400 at the earliest if legitimate.
Based on the word “Reuennes” which can be found in several books written in the mid 1500’s, the 1571 date is in the right ballpark.
Is ‘sorertreu’ just ‘so rare true’ ?
Here's some Old English for you:
Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,Old English is just a little bit more difficult to decipher...
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas.
The text doesn't refer to Thomas de Mowbray. It refers to a much later Duke of Norfolk. In the 16th Century, there were no less than three Thomas Howards who were Dukes of Norfolk. There were two more Thomas Dukes of Nofolk in the 17th century, but my guess is that this is 16th century.
"I am registered to vote in Chicago."
I agree with your dating. I was simply pointing out that it could not possibly have been earlier than 1400 - in other words, long after Old English had ceased.
That’s better than any guesses I had :)
William Cantrell and William Dix were both granted lands in Sussex that had been stripped from Thomas Howard, 4th Duke Of Norfolk (new creation) in 1572.
Perhaps this Cantrell is the son of R2nd's Cantrell.
I was thinking that the ‘s’ in “sorertrev” might be an ‘f’, since they sometimes looked alike. For some reason I think ‘lvste’ might’ve been ‘trust.’ I’m no expert though.
My guess is that “sorertrev” has to do with the fief whose revenues he wanted to extract - “trew” (”trev”) could have meant the privilege of tribute or taxation from tenants of the fief. So we would have somoen with both the privilege and the intent (desire) to extract those funds from tenants.
Howard appointed William Cantrell as trustee of his properties in an attempt to protect them from the Queen -- whom he obviously feared might seize them after his act of treason.
Alleged treason.
Excellent find!
“Man here thov mayste yntombed see a man of honest fame,
Come home to earthe who in life bare Willm Cantrell name,
A gentleman in birth in life in ofice and degre,
Now wrapte in clay then thincke oh man what shall becom of the,
This Willm Cantrell feofee was with others put in trvste,
Regarded well for vertvovs life wise sorertrev and lvste
Even of the whole revennes of that mighty prince of the late
Thomas Dvke of Norfolke highte somtyme of high estate”
And thus perhaps then
"... for vertvovs life wise sorertrev and lvste even of the whole ..."
might be something along the lines of
"... for virtuous life wise so rare true and just even of ..."
Great catch, without seeing the rubbing even!
Nice catch! It scans very poorly.
Man, here thou mayest entombed see a man of honest fame come home to earth, who in life bore the name William Cantrell: a gentleman in birth, in life, in office and degree, now wrapped in clay. Then think, oh man, what shall become of thee.
This William Cantrell, fiefholder, was with others put in trust (regarded well for virtuous life, wise, sober, true, and just) even of the whole revenues of that mighty prince, the late Thomas, Duke of Norfolk, hight sometime of high estate.
[Hight=called.]
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