Posted on 05/22/2008 10:44:04 AM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom
Can anyone help translate some of this Old english? It is from a transcription on a tomb my wife did a rubbing of for a friend who is tracing his ancestry.
Man here thov mayste yntombed see a man of honest fame come home to earthe who in life bare Willm Cantrell name a gentleman in birth in life in ofice and degre now wrapte in clay then thincke oh man what shall becom of the this Willm Cantrell feofee was with others put in trvste regarded well for vertvovs life wise sorertrev and lvste even of the whole revennes of that mighty prince of the late Thomas Dvke of Norfolke highte somtyme of high estate
Some of the words were unclear even looking straight at the tomb so it may not be perfect but perhaps you can figure it out. Thanks.
By “Old English” do you mean the version of English that uses “he” as a neutral pronoun and uses “man” to refer gnerically to humans?
Well, I know enough that Vs were used for both v and u. So then trvste becomes trust with an e added. Ys were used as Is so that somtyme then can be read as sometime. Some of the words are totally incomprehensible to me however. Sorry:)
Richard Lederer
http://www.verbivore.com/askrl.htm
I’m definitely not an expert at all, but that looks more like Middle English than Old English to me.
Old English is often intelligible to those familiar with modern english, and is more germanic and celtic than english (take a look at the Beowulf manuscript for an example.)
In Middle English, you can make out most of the words, which I can here.
Some of the v's are really u's.
"feofee" isn't in there but "feoffee" is. So you have to hunt around. Most decent libraries have an OED. (I'm referring to the 20 volume set.)
ML/NJ
“Man here thov mayste yntombed see a man of honest fame come home to earthe who in life bare Willm Cantrell name a gentleman in birth in life in ofice and degre now wrapte in clay then thincke oh man what shall becom of the this Willm Cantrell feofee was with others put in trvste regarded well for vertvovs life wise sorertrev and lvste even of the whole revennes of that mighty prince of the late Thomas Dvke of Norfolke highte somtyme of high estate”
Man, here thou mayest entombed see a man of honest fame come home to earth who in life bore the name William Cantrell. A gentleman in birth, in life, in office and degree now wrapped in clay. Then think oh man what shall become of this William Cantrell’s feofee was put in trust with others. Regarded well for a virtuous life, [unknown] and lust, even of the whole revenues of that mighty prince, of the late Thomas, Duke of Norfolk, the height sometimes of high estate.
Best I can do. BTW feofee is an investment made by someone into a fief, as though the fief were a corporation.
I believe this part of the first line “Man here thov mayste yntombed”, reads A man here though may be entombed.
Looks like this William Cantrell was a member of the rural gentry who held some sort of office of trust under the Duke of Norfolk involving the revenues of his estate???
Not sure I have the right Willm Cantrell but this...
http://www.genuki.org.uk:8080/big/eng/LIN/Heckington/heckington_burials_1561.pdf
shows he died in 1571. Wife died in 1571.
FWIW.
Also, sometimes a ‘y gets rendered as ‘th’ as in “Ye”, and what looks like an ‘f’ may be a soft “s” as you may see even in later writings like our Founding documents...
That said, I have no idea what a “feofee” would be.
ME is still pretty hard to translate; but this one's not so horribly hard.
I think lust maybe list
fwiw, that’s not OE. That text is centuries after Chaucer, which was also not OE. That’s Shakespearean era. Incidentally, if he knew the Duke of Norfolk, he knew my ancestor who was his adviser, Robert Pace.
Wan that abril weth the suerth surte,
the drougth of March is pirced to the roothe
Looks like you nailed it. I believe your are correct with the fiefdom part as well, I stumbled on that one wondering if it might have been the same “F” symbol you might see in the word leftentant, or to represent an “s” like you might see in early Congressional documents where they show as “Congreffs”. It looks like these ‘f’s were actually f’s for a change. Your translation for revenues was dead on too, I was able to find it in an old Chaucer book. I am still hunting around trying find ‘sorertreu’.
Looks like a obituary or grave marker. I'm not an expert but I have done some study. This also does not appear to be actual old English but rather more late middle to early modern English. Think, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. I would translate as:
,
; Man here thou may entomb, see a man of honest fame (report), come home to earth, who in life, barred (carried the) William Cantrell name.
A gentleman in birth, in life, in office (job), and degree (education or knowledge), now wrapped in clay (buried). Then think oh man, "what shall become of this William Cantrell, Trustee"(legal title) was, with others, placed in trust. Regarded well for virtuous life, wise sorertrev (disposition ??), and lvste (??) even of the whole revenues of that mighty prince of the late (recently died) Thomas Dyke of Norfolk Heights, sometime (or temporary) of high estate (net worth).
Fæder úre, ðú ðe eart on heofonum, Sí ðín nama gehálgod. Tó becume ðín rice. Gewurde ðín willa On eorþan swá swá on heofonum. Urne dægwhamlícan hlaf syle ús tódæg. And forgyf ús úre gyltas, Swá swá wé forgyfaþ úrum gyltendum. And ne gelæd ðu ús on costnunge, Ac álýs ús of yfele. Sóþlice.
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