My son, on the other hand, was raised by me, a full-time single father from the time my son was 2 until he went off to college at 18. He missed school less than 5 days in his entire life, played varsity football and baseball, graduated 28th out of 530 in his HS class, was/is an Eagle Scout and was accepted and went to the University of Illinois in Champaign, IL a very, very good school. He was universally praised by others, (friends, relatives, coaches, scout leaders) as a “good kid” and I have always been very proud of him. Good Conservative loves Trump guy. It breaks my heart to see him and my grandkids in this situation. I don’t know what happened to him.
My son came back from college, all his friends had moved on or moved away and he was understandably lonely while getting readjusted to his new location. SWMBO was a friend of his cousin's wife (another SWMBO) and they were introduced. My read on it all was that she saw what a great prospect he was and got her hooks into him. My one area of fault while raising him was I did not date much while I was raising him and bring a lot of women into his life and did not train him in the ways of the female sex, especially the desperate to marry, staring down age 30, SWMBO types. My son’s mother was an awful alcoholic and is/has been no help to him in many areas of his life. I was mother and father to him. His mother is in no shape to be of any help in this situation even now.
I know my son was a grown man when he met her, but I am so sorry I wasn’t watching more closely at the time. I fear for the children and my son and their future. When I have visited with the grandkids SWMBO has to be there or my son. As if I am on probation and need supervision. I have NEVER been allowed to be alone with any of my grandchildren for more than a few minutes. There is NOTHING…NOTHING about me, or in my past, that necessitates this.
Recently (last July) in an enraged fit, she banned me from coming over or having any contact with the grandkids for my horrible act of ignoring her. How dare I ignore her! I always saw my grandkids at least once a month if not 2 or 3 times a month. Now it has been almost 4 months. Missed the first birthday in September out of the 27 birthdays the 3 grandkids have had. My birthday in August was completely ignored. SWMBO is using the children as a weapon and has taken them, for all intents and purposes, as hostages.
My grandchildren and I, (1 boy, 2 girls) have ALWAYS had a very close and wonderful relationship. They are/were the joy of my life. I love children anyway and when they came along, I was in heaven. I wonder at times if she was jealous of how well the children, and I get along and how much they love me. What she is doing is hurting everyone, the kids, me, and my son but he can’t seem to muster the guts to stand up to her. It’s like he has Stockholm Syndrome and sides with his terrorist captor. He may even be an abused husband, as the things I’ve seen in person are probably not even close to what happens when I’m not there.
I have tried…. over and over and over and over again …to make things right with her over the years. Invited her out for coffee so we could talk over and resolve our differences, bestowed very nice gifts on her and the children, made sure I treated her mother and her mother’s husband with respect, been as supportive as I can be in any area support was needed. Her mother sees the kids a lot more than I ever did/do btw. She misses all most all of my family’s large gatherings. The best compliment, acknowledgment, I have ever gotten out of SWMBO is: “I don’t DISLIKE you.”.
We are trying family counseling. My son and I have gone over the last month or so, but I don’t even know if SWMBO has seen the counselor. SWMBO and my son are masters of passive-aggressive (and sometimes just aggressive) manipulation. I don’t know where the counseling is going.
The laws in my state (AZ) only enforce grandparents’ rights is very narrow circumstances. If a couple have divorced or one parent has died, etc. I don’t fit into any of applicable categories.
I’ve thought of suing SWMBO for intentional infliction of emotional distress (which is horrific & extremely painful) and consulting a family law attorney to see what can be done. I see evidence of abusive anger and actions by SWMBO and high frustration in my son’s behavior. SWMBO’s mother is useless for any help and the fact she moved FURTHER away from SWMBO and her own grandkids may be telling.
I know I’ll get hit from all angles on this good and bad. I don’t care. Any suggestions, ideas, referrals to legal contacts are welcome.
I will walk through fire for my wonderful grandchildren and I will NEVER, EVER give up on them and their future, EVER!
think on: Serenity Prayer
Let go, let God
Thankfully, I’ve only seen this situation in about five or so of my friends/acquaintances. In every instance, the Shrews all cracked and left the demure husband OR cracked to the point where the passive hubby said “Screw THIS!” and left. In all cases, the Shrews tried to come back or had regrets. With the grandkids, it might be very tough, but your best tactic might be to tell the son that you’ve had enough of her, and that you must “part ways unless or until something changes - but it’s your life, son. You’re married to her but I’m not.”
It’s not fair for you to endure that nonsense and you can circle back to the kids on your own, once they leave home - and then help them with any counseling that they’ll presumably need by then.
Consult a Family Law Attorney.
Most will do an initial consult for free to find out whether you have any viable legal path you can navigate.
In the consult, discuss the Elder Abuse laws in AZ.
Talk about Emotional Abuse as it may relate.
Talk about how Law in AZ defines “Neglect”; as I understand it, there are differing degrees. Kids are in school, fed, have beds — the infrastructure is there; her love isn’t.
Understand, basis her past, SHE will not change until SHE gets help unwinding HER PERSONAL PAST issues.
If there’s anyone who could say this to her, you’ve gotta find someone who can, and will:
“You not getting counseling to overcome your past, is dragging your kids right into the chaos and dysfunction of your coping mechanisms.”
She’s having difficulty loving others because she’s having difficulty loving herself, and that’s a bar nobody can clear; you’ll never love anyone more, or treat anyone better, than you love, and treat, your own self.
For your son:
He very likely feels MANY things all at once, and the tangle offers no evident “first thing to do.”
He wants to help his wife get better.
Wants to be pleasing, to relate like they did “before.”
He wants her to get whatever help she needs to get free of her demons, ‘cuz they’re ransacking his family.
He NEEDS her to see that with unveiled eyes, ‘cuz he can’t make her; it’s gotta be her choice.
I’m betting he’s already thought his way through 1,001 scenarios, and it comes down to who’s gonna be the risk-taker to tell the woman, “Get help, or we’re stepping away from you until you do.”
He likely feels stuck; like he can’t step away, ‘cuz family logistics would throw all the weight on him, that social services would come out against him, and leave the kids in her “care,” and she’d feel hurt even MORE, which would give her MORE to blame on him, and maybe put him at risk of not seeing his own kids.
...
You’ve got yourself a LONG row to hoe.
The BEST “STEP 1” I could possibly think of: get that family to church.
No matter the past structure, you don’t need to nitpick about the sign at the curb, you need a thriving fellowship with Jesus alive in the place regularly; a bona fide spiritual ER, ‘cuz this case is in Critical Condition.
I took a scientific wild-ass guess and targeted Phoenix and environs; use the tools on the page to adjust the map as needed.
https://www.arcchurches.com/about/map?location=phoenix%2C+AZ&distance=50
LASTLY,
Top right of the page, click into the Religion forum, find today’s Prayer] thread and post your dilemma as a request for prayer. There’s more wisdom and power on-tap than any of us can muster on our own, and you stand in undeniable need.
Godspeed, sir.
Do you happen to know if either of them have “cheated”.....? That would be really useful info. (Also, does your son or anybody in your family ever visit this forum? That might be a good place to start.)
This is fascinating! (by the way)
Whatever advice I might offer regarding correction of the offender might get you in trouble. First, let’s rule out the easier methods of splitting two people up, or at least neutralizing the offender so that s/he can’t continue to offend.
PS: I never recommend divorce. It might be a good idea for them to separate for a time, but - just think - how would you feel seeing your kid, newly divorced from this she-devil, hooking up with the same kind of thing? Divorce is the absolute last thing that should be considered.
Had an abusive, narcissistic ex.
Read a few of these....
https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/114362.Patricia_Evans
Document everything with video, then call a lawyer and demand visitation rights which may get CPS involved.
Or, apply for custody. It’s an impossibility, of course, but gets the legal system involved. You will automatically lose, until you show them video.
Insist you would prefer she get help, but now she will be under observation. Which may moderate her behavior.
Unless your son wants to divorce her, which is a talk you should have, the best you can do is apply for parental (grandparent) rights.
GET EVERYTHING ON VIDEO FIRST, they can’t ignore video. Consider hiring a detective to help you gather evidence.
Have his employer offer your son's wife a position in an organization that works to insure and defend the rights of Saudi women.
Arrange for your son's entire family move to Saudi Arabia.
Have the Saudis you have bribed, fix her wagon completely.
Have your son and grandchildren move back to America.
Butt Out.
Sorry this is happening but until your son decides he wants another lifestyle there’s nothing you can do. In fact you could be enabling him to remain in some respects. Don’t feed the beast either.
Frankly stay out of it. ...and though uncomfortable for you live by their restrictions they’ve established and otherwise live your own life.
She did little housework, would try to hide the kids shoes and clothing so I couldn't take them to the playground. Had her mother come over and do the laundry, cooking, etc.
When I finally figured out the code of the notes she was writing I was worried sick about my kids when I left for work. I tried to talk to her about the notes and her controlling behavior, but she wouldn't talk.
Long story short, I got the child protective services involved and tried to get her psych help via the protective agencies. They refused to help. The only recourse I had was to force it by getting the kids away from her via custody...that meant separation of divorce proceeding. That turned into a 3 year, 30k battle that I lost when the feminist guardian ad litem took her side and the psychologist involved saw no problem with the notes.
At the end of the deal she ended up with full physical custody and half joint legal custody. I ended up with a broken family and living alone because the judge didn't have the balls to deviate from the sellout psychologist and the feminist guardian opinions, regardless of the notes.
All I had was a fresh faith that only God could protect my little girls unless I wanted to take them and hit the road...which is no life for kids.
The upshot is poor choices have consequences and sometimes the kids end up paying the price. Life is a trade off. Grandparents DO have legal rights to see the grandkids, but leveraging those rights legally through court has monetary and relationship costs.
Choose your steps very carefully and weight the costs vs. the benefits. As you know kids grow very fast and are fairly resilient....my advice is to do what you can in this situation to let the kids know you are there for them. Trust in the Lord and pray for them. This will pass. Keep a watchful eye for acute threats and act if you must...but being the motivating force of ripping a family apart, that has SOME order, is not a good thing. Often times, things could be much worse. Be thankful for that.
AND DRINK!!!! :)
There seems to be little that you can do. But there’s cause for hope.
I had a similar, lesser experience. Lesser because - unlike you - I didn’t carry the weight of parental care.
My ‘swmbo’ seemed pretty far gone. She had basically mounted a two-year long home invasion(!) and was holding hostages.
There seemed to be nothing that I could do. Not from long distance anyway.
So - unable to think of anything else - I committed her to the Sacred Heart. I prayed (and I still pray) for her conversion, and for her children. I asked God to untie the knots that were tying us up.
Not much seemed to be happening. Seemed. But something was. You’ll appreciate that sometimes enormous things move below the surface.
Only just yesterday my ‘swmbo’ and I had a warm, cordial conversation. We’re beginning to find a real joy in each others company. It turns out that we have a lot in common. I would never have thought it possible a year ago.
So anyway - even if you’re not a praying man yourself, plenty of FReepers are. May God restore friendship and joy to you and your family.
I was married to a swmbo for a long time... I will come back around later to chime in
what does swmbo stand for?
I JUST had a visit from a good friend yesterday. She and her husband have the same sad, sad situation. Their DIL is determined they are going to have as little to do with his parents and sister as possible. When I say these are LOVELY people, I’m not kidding.
The DIL got her meat hooks into this boy when he was only 16 years of age and has managed to keep him isolated and only serving her ever since. She’s crafty, as she can put on such a nice front when she wants - looks like a super mom. She has been popping a kid every 2 years, and they now have six of them. The house is a disaster, and the poor husband comes home to chaos and starts cleaning up and cooking from the time he gets home. He’s a smart guy. An engineer - 33 years old. He’s trapped.
We have decided the DIL is a narcissist. Very dangerous people. There’s no cure. My poor friend feels like she’s walking on eggs whenever she sees them, and she sees them seldom now. She is petrified of the day they get cut out completely and she no longer can see her son or grandkids. Narcissists are pure evil. I’ve known a few.
Oh....and to make it even worse, she is a “Christian”, from a good “Christian” home and works part-time at the church. She works, of course, in the evenings, so the son has to watch the kids several nights a week.
She’s one of those people who posts pics to show the world what a wonderful super-mom she is.....such a pant load. She’s an evil person who loves to belittle her husband in front of people, especially his parents.
She sounds bipolar, however on her good days she should be cleaning like a mad woman ect. maybe she is just a bitch, she better be careful when men are in a situation like this they can get a wandering eye and she may end up finding herself DUMPED!! Men tend to take this kind of behavior UNTIL someone at work catches their eye THEN they are DONE!!
My opinion (which you will not like) is stay away.
Don’t make a big deal about it, just don’t show up.
Make excuses for not showing up—claim health problems or any other excuse that is appropriate for your situation.
When the kids get to be young adults and are out of the house you can try to re-establish contact.
The woman is toxic, and she will drag you down with her.
No drama.
Just don’t be there.
Your options are limited.
Let’s start with telling the truth:
You did not cause her problems.
You cannot fix her problems.
You cannot change her.
You cannot make her like you.
You cannot make her “do the right thing.”
Nor can you make her do anything you think she should.
You cannot have a positive relationship with her.
Also...
You have a son you (presumably still) care about.
You likely want to have a connection with your grandkids.
It seems to me there are only a few options under your control:
You can see your son separately, talk to him by phone, in short continue your relationship with him.
He is the key to having some kind of relationship with your grandkids.
This will be without the involvement of the DIL.
Finally, I’d suggest you:
Be kind and treat her kindly, despite her never deserving it.
Speak kindly of her in front of your grandkids and kids. For better or worse, shes the mom, the wife.
Don’t dwell on the things you can’t control about this.
Your happiness in life does not depend on her.