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U.S. Army’s XM25 Punisher: The Super Gun That Failed
19FortyFive ^ | 12/26/2020 | Peter Suicu

Posted on 12/26/2020 7:04:56 AM PST by Onthebrink

There are countless examples of military systems that shouldn’t have gone forward – but too often designers “chased” the problems, and in the end that put soldiers in harm’s way. A weapon that doesn’t function properly in the field is dangerous to the user, and the U.S. Army’s XM25 Punisher is such an example.

At least in this case the problem was canceled and the lessons (hopefully) learned.

History

Developed by Alliant Techsystems and Heckler & Koch under the Counter Defilade Target Engagement (CDTE) program for the Army, the XM25 System was meant to provide a soldier with a revolutionary weapon platform that could provide increased lethality and range using 25mm programmable ammunition. The handheld weapon was also designed to enable small units and individual soldiers to engage defilade targets by providing a 25mm air bursting capability that could be employed in all operational environments.

(Excerpt) Read more at 19fortyfive.com ...


TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: gun; guns; military; rifle
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1 posted on 12/26/2020 7:04:56 AM PST by Onthebrink
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To: Onthebrink

Interesting read. Thank you.


2 posted on 12/26/2020 7:08:24 AM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: Onthebrink

At one point Ronnie Barrett was involved in developing a similar weapon. That disappeared too.


3 posted on 12/26/2020 7:14:29 AM PST by jeffersondem
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To: Onthebrink

Human hubris costs much in life.

It’s HARD to admit one was wrong..it’s hard to just let go of the fact that so much time and energy and money were spent on something...even if it’s very obvious it’s the right thing to do.

And then there’s the profit angle. Money to be lost if a weapon ceases to be funded.

I’m sure many weapons have failed in the past. Many plane designs, I think.

I would imagine though that even a failure provides knowledge that should help in future endeavours


4 posted on 12/26/2020 7:14:46 AM PST by dp0622 (Tried a coup, a fake tax story, tramp slander, Russia nonsense, impeachment and a virus. They lost.)
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To: Onthebrink
Picture worth 1,000 words


5 posted on 12/26/2020 7:18:12 AM PST by HippyLoggerBiker (Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake. )
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To: Onthebrink
February 2013

Of course, the Obama years and his failed, weak minions at work half-heartedly in behalf of America because their boss was against America.

6 posted on 12/26/2020 7:18:37 AM PST by Jim W N (MAGA by restoring the Gospel of the Grace of Christ (Jude 3) and our Free Constitutional Republic!)
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To: Onthebrink
Not in any way surprised: just annoyed that the army threw so much money at a clearly unusable system.

I worked in weapons development for the Marine Corps, so I saw it in all of its many evolutions - from a "combo" weapon with one 20mm 5-shot system mated to a 5.56mm rifle system, to a 20mm only, then the 25mm beast. It was always unhandy, heavy, chunky, and had a whiz-bang, battery-powered $25,000 computing gun sight that set the time on the projectile fuze by estimating the number of times the round would rotate until it got to the target's range.

Sounded great on paper - and to the civilians/rear area pogues. but in action it was a pig and the round's very expensive per shot cost was upwards of $100 per round. The 25mm round has itty-bitty frags, so chances are you'd just annoy your target and not kill him after your long exposure to his fire while your computing gunsight was getting his range.

Combat weapons need to have direct input by actual combat veterans, not be designed by JSSAP weeny civilians or weapons vendors seeking to make bucks.

There is a museum at Ft. Benning that houses a collection of these failed products of this development process: they'll undoubtedly want one of these to add to their collection.

7 posted on 12/26/2020 7:20:09 AM PST by Chainmail (Remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence)
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To: Onthebrink

Bkmk


8 posted on 12/26/2020 7:23:53 AM PST by sauropod (Cui bono? I will not comply.)
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To: Onthebrink

Pentagon Wars!


9 posted on 12/26/2020 7:31:06 AM PST by NonValueAdded ("Sorry, your race card has been declined. Can you present any other form of argument?")
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To: Onthebrink
I always wondered about the "air burst" capability of this gun. Even if it exploded over the target it seems like the forward momentum would carry the projectiles forward.

One weapons system that got a lot of pushback (even here in FR), which has since (I believe) become well-adopted is the Osprey. So, sometimes the Phoenix can rise from the ashes.

10 posted on 12/26/2020 7:32:08 AM PST by The Duke (President Trump = America's Last, Best Chance)
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To: Chainmail

That’s why the dragonfire mortar system is far better. A single soldier can lase a target and within 18 seconds a mortar is on its way raining death from above. Whoever came up with that one is a genius.

Have a happy new year Sir.


11 posted on 12/26/2020 7:52:32 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: Chainmail

Primary feature was the distance-set detonation of a 25mm frag round.

Rumor is an early demo had a high ranking officer test fire the weapon.
The ranged detonation worked as set.
The range was set to one meter.


12 posted on 12/26/2020 7:58:36 AM PST by ctdonath2 (Interesting how those so interested in workERS are so disinterested in workING.)
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To: Onthebrink
The XM25 was supposed to be the ultimate one-soldier carried grenade launcher, generations ahead of the old M-79s our guys humped.
Problems included too heavy and didn't always work.
The extra technology was not seen as worth the loss of the rifle it required.

The old 40mm M-79 with M-4 carbine (left):
The new 25mm XM-25, no carbine (right):

The US Army already has lots of different grenade launchers for soldiers to chose from on any given mission.
Which ones work best under what circumstances is likely a matter for discussions & preferences.

13 posted on 12/26/2020 8:00:57 AM PST by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...) )
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To: The Duke

From what I remember, it cost a lot of money to develop, along with having a rocky testing period.


14 posted on 12/26/2020 8:04:16 AM PST by wastedyears (The left would kill every single one of us and our families if they knew they could get away with it)
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To: BroJoeK

I used the M79 in Nam. With enough practice you can pretty much hit what you are aiming at. Cheap and effective and works even if your batteries go dead. Oh, wait. It doesn’t have batteries.


15 posted on 12/26/2020 8:09:17 AM PST by Seruzawa (TANSTAAFL!)
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To: The Duke

The AV-8B Harrier was another. Killed a lot of Marines before they worked (most of) the bugs out. The F-35 appears to have turned the corner as well, though older aviators remain skeptical.

Infantry weapons are a different matter. They have to be rugged, reliable, portable and lethal (probably in that order). Infantry could usually expect to be operating with mortars, artillery or occasionally air support. So having a heavy air-burst weapon for those few occasions is a bit of a luxury.


16 posted on 12/26/2020 8:40:21 AM PST by Tallguy (Up)
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To: ctdonath2

Damn metric system.


17 posted on 12/26/2020 8:48:54 AM PST by gundog ( Hail to the Chief, bitches!)
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To: Chainmail

Speaking of museums at Benning, any idea if we’re any closer to getting the tanks formerly at the Patton Museum on display?


18 posted on 12/26/2020 9:10:05 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Chainmail

“failed products of this development process”

That’s the very nature of Research and Development.

Roughly...
90% of ideas entering Research don’t get to Development.
90% of products entering Development don’t get into production and are not commercially introduced.
90% of products entering the commercial market do not succeed.

Yet you never stop your R&D pipeline.


19 posted on 12/26/2020 9:13:14 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom ("Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out" -- David Horowitz)
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To: Onthebrink

14 lbs! Too much weight to lug around.


20 posted on 12/26/2020 9:34:31 AM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> --- )
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