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Was Mary Just Disposable?
Fr. Frederick William Faber ^ | 12-08-2020 | CharlesOconnell

Posted on 11/30/2020 6:25:03 AM PST by CharlesOConnell

During the first 1,500 years of Christianity, Mary was regarded as the peer of Enoch, Elijah and, according to a Jewish targum (a biblical commentary), Moses, by God taking her bodily up into heaven. (Orthodox and Catholics allow that she may have just newly died during the Assumption, calling her death “falling asleep”.) In two-thirds of the Christian tradition, across the Orthodox and Catholic world, Mary is regarded as having been specially privileged, called Theotokos, God-bearer. In order that the birth of Jesus would be in a fitting vessel, Catholics believe Mary was also the peer of Eve prior to her eating the forbidden fruit, in that she was preserved from sin during her conception, so that “macula non est in te” (“there is no stain in you”, Song of Songs, verse 4:7). There is no sin in her. Most Christians are saved by the death of Christ after their sins; Mary was saved before sinning. This is called The Immaculate Conception.

Click the Button to sing the prayer, or play the song in a New Window
http://www.celebrationarts.net/images/_alpha/O-Purest-Of-Creatures-Sweet-Star-Of-The-Sea.mp3

O Purest of Creatures – Sweet Star of the Sea
Fr. Frederick William Faber, (1814-1863)St. Denio
1. O purest of creatures,
sweet Mother! sweet Maid!
The one spotless womb wherein
Jesus was laid!
Dark night hath come down on us,
Mother! And we,
Look out for thy shining, sweet
Star of the Sea!
2. Deep night has come down on this
rough-spoken world,
&-the banners of darkness are
boldly unfurled;
&-the tempest tossed Church—
all her eyes are on thee,
They look to thy shining, sweet
Star of the Sea!
3. He gazed on thy soul; it was
spotless and fair;
For-the empire of sin—it had
never been there;
None had ever owned thee, dear
Mother! But He,
And-He blessed thy clear shining, sweet
Star of the Sea!
4. Earth gave Him one lodging; ‘twas
deep in thy breast,
And God found a home where the
sinner finds rest;
His home and His hiding place
both were in thee,
He-was won by thy shining, sweet
Star of the Sea.
5. O blissful and calm was the
wonderful rest,
That-thou gavest thy God in thy
virginal breast;
For-the heaven He left, He found
heaven in thee,
And-He shone in thy shining, sweet
Star of the Sea!
6. To sinners what comfort, to
angels what mirth,
That God found one creature un-
fallen on earth,
One spot where His Spirit, un-
troubled could be,
The depth of thy shining, sweet
Star of the Sea!
7. O shine on us brighter than
even, then shine,
For-the highest of honours, dear
Mother! Is thine;
“Conceived without sin,” thy chaste
title e’re be,
Clear light from thy birth-spring, sweet
Star of the Sea!
8. So worship we God in these
rude latter days;
So worship we Jesus our
Love, when we praise,
His wonderful grace in the
gifts He gave thee,
The gift of clear shining, sweet
Star of the Sea!
9. Deep night hath come down on us,
Mother! Deep night,
And-we need more than ever the
guide of thy light;
For-the darker the night is the
brighter should be,
Thy beautiful shining, sweet
Star of the Sea!
Amen.




Click the Button to sing the prayer, or play the song in a New Window
http://www.celebrationarts.net/images/_alpha/ImmaculateMary.mp3


TOPICS: Religion
KEYWORDS: jesus; mary
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To: agere_contra

Since Catholics usually come up with that perverted rationalization, do you all really think that she had sex with God?


21 posted on 11/30/2020 7:28:40 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: agere_contra

No person was sinless but Jesus.

Mary didn’t need to be sinless to bear Christ.


22 posted on 11/30/2020 7:29:34 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: agere_contra

Mary cooperated but that is not giving her permission since God didn’t ask her.


23 posted on 11/30/2020 7:30:18 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: CharlesOConnell

Don’t pray to dead humans!


24 posted on 11/30/2020 7:32:46 AM PST by BubbaBasher ("Liberty will not long survive the total extinction of morals" - Sam Adams)
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To: metmom

Indeed, she had the taint of original sin by virtue of the fact that she was born of the line of Adam and Eve. Otherwise, she would have been suitable as a perfect, sinless sacrifice on the cross.


25 posted on 11/30/2020 7:36:29 AM PST by 17th Miss Regt
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To: metmom

Metmom, I’m astonished that you appear to be doubling down on this.

The idea that God would force Mary to bear His child against her will is obscene. But is this in fact what you saying? Or just a misunderstanding?

Let us all remember Mary’s ‘fiat’ - her expressed permission, which is right there in scripture.


26 posted on 11/30/2020 7:50:57 AM PST by agere_contra (Please pray for Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: metmom
Mary didn’t need to be sinless to bear Christ.

The Ark of the Covenant was covered in gold and elaborately sanctified in order to carry the presence of God.

How much more would She who literally carried the Incarnate Christ in her womb need to be sanctified, set apart, sacred and holy?

27 posted on 11/30/2020 7:54:34 AM PST by agere_contra (Please pray for Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: agere_contra
What about "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus." and "“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God." sounds like asking permission? Where is the question? Where does the angel say that God was wondering if Mary would cooperate?
28 posted on 11/30/2020 7:56:54 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: BubbaBasher
Don’t pray to dead humans!

Well, good advice there.

But the Saints are alive in Christ: far more alive than we can currently understand.

Remember that to pray is simply - to ask. "I pray thee" means the same as "Please".

If I can ask my friend Gary for help with my car, why can't I ask Mary to pray for me and my family?

Lastly: the prayers of the Saints are so important that they get a specific mention in the Apocalypse.

    And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

29 posted on 11/30/2020 8:04:26 AM PST by agere_contra (Please pray for Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: metmom

Still averting our gaze from Mary’s permission I see. Why is that?

God’s messenger was not in doubt. Because God was not in doubt.

God who sent Gabriel knew what Mary’s reaction would be. Because He is God.

But that doesn’t mean that Mary didn’t have a choice. Otherwise: why did she give her permission?


30 posted on 11/30/2020 8:14:55 AM PST by agere_contra (Please pray for Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: 17th Miss Regt
she would have been suitable as a perfect, sinless sacrifice on the cross.

But her sinless status is ultimately derived from her Son's sacrifice on the cross.

In any case: this is irrelevant. Let us for a moment imagine a strange reality where Mary is sacrificed on the cross, and her Son is not.

Her sacrifice does nothing. Not because of any question of sinlessness, but because she is not the Incarnate Deity, Second Person of the Trinity.

31 posted on 11/30/2020 8:22:59 AM PST by agere_contra (Please pray for Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: agere_contra
You contradict yourself.
God who sent Gabriel knew what Mary’s reaction would be. Because He is God.
But that doesn’t mean that Mary didn’t have a choice. Otherwise: why did she give her permission?
You answered your own question. God knew her choice so the point is moot. Also she wasn't asked. She obeyed. Her own free choice. Case closed.
32 posted on 11/30/2020 8:44:34 AM PST by BipolarBob ("Mother, can I trust the government")
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To: CharlesOConnell

The Roman Catholic Church began to decline when Mary was declared Theotokos. Mary did not bear God the Father.? She bore Jesus Christ (2nd Member of the Holy Trinity). She is Christotokos. This Roman error led to other errors like Immaculate Conception, Mary as co-redeemer, and Mary prayer...


33 posted on 11/30/2020 8:45:37 AM PST by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: BipolarBob
This is good news.

You seem to be agreeing with me: that Mary did indeed have a free choice whether or not to be the Mother of God. Would that be a fair summary?

34 posted on 11/30/2020 9:40:21 AM PST by agere_contra (Please pray for Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: agere_contra
Would that be a fair summary?

No. God knew her choice ahead of time. God knew she would obey when told she was going to have a Son. Mary was the mother of Jesus. She was never born sinless. She sinned. She needed Jesus as her Savior. Plus the term "Mother of God" is blasphemy.

35 posted on 11/30/2020 9:50:23 AM PST by BipolarBob ("Mother, can I trust the government")
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To: Jan_Sobieski
Mary did not bear God the Father.

No-one on earth believes that Mary bore God the Father.

The Holy Trinity is three Persons and one God.

Mary bore Christ: the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, who is True God and True Man.

She is certainly Theotokos - or else Christ is not God.

36 posted on 11/30/2020 9:50:34 AM PST by agere_contra (Please pray for Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: BipolarBob
Why do people keep repeating this obvious error?

God does indeed know what we will choose ahead of time.

However He cannot know what we will choose, if we are not given a choice.

37 posted on 11/30/2020 9:53:41 AM PST by agere_contra (Please pray for Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: metmom

On the terms presented by Gabriel? None, without the divine assistance of the Immaculate Conception.


38 posted on 11/30/2020 9:55:13 AM PST by Romulus
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To: trebb

So you are saying that the human nature Jesus received from his mother had been under the dominion of sin? His human soul was troubled by original sin, and that he was therefore unable to give full and free assent to the Father’s will? In other words, the Atonement is a fraud?


39 posted on 11/30/2020 9:59:40 AM PST by Romulus
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To: BipolarBob
Plus the term "Mother of God" is blasphemy.

If Jesus were not God, then you would be correct.

However - He IS God. He is True God and True Man. He is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity who became a man for our sakes. This is why Christmas is such a big deal.

FR is a big place, and there are many FReepers who are not yet Christians. There's no shame in it.

I pray that Jesus the infant christ-child will touch both of our hearts during this Christmas season.

40 posted on 11/30/2020 10:00:09 AM PST by agere_contra (Please pray for Pope Benedict XVI)
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