Posted on 11/30/2020 6:25:03 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
Theotokos is the wrong term. Christotokos is correct. Mary bore Jesus Christ, 2nd person of the Trinity. Not God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Since Christians believe Jesus is the Christ of God, and 2nd member of the Holy Trinity, Mary is Christotokos. Nestorius was right, Cyril of Alexandria was wrong
For our Lurkers
The Trinity consists of three completely separate Divine Persons. Those Persons are: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
Although the Persons are separate, their natures are exactly the same; that is how they are one God, even though they are three Persons.
The Blessed Mother gave birth to the second Person of the Trinity, God the Son.
Jesus (God the Son) is both fully Divine and fully Human. Mary is His mother, hence she is named the Mother of God.
To avoid confusion: Mary is not the mother of all three Persons of the Holy Trinity. She is the mother of God the Son.
The nature of the Trinity is the central fact of reality, and there is a very great deal to say about it.
But for FReepers who are new to this: St. Patrick in the mid 400’s A.D. used the (three-leaved) shamrock as an analogy to help us understand the Trinity correctly.
The shamrock has three leaves: but each leaf shares the nature of the same plant.
Christmas is not a big deal. It's a manmade holiday that is commercialized. Jesus and the Disciples never celebrated Christmas nor Easter.
I pray that Jesus the infant christ-child will touch both of our hearts during this Christmas season.
I pray that the grown up Jesus that died on the cross touches our hearts. Catholics cling to the infant Jesus to show the BIG Mary and emphasize her.
Jesus Christ shares the Divine Nature to the same degree as the other Two Persons of the Trinity.
He is The Word of God: the full and perfect expression of God the Father.
Not that Freepers use the term very often, but ‘Theotokos’ is technically correct.
Whatever tinsel and foolery we wrap around it, Christmas is the time when we all get to howl our joy about the central fact of creation: God made man.
Catholics point to the infant Christ because God made Himself a weak, vulnerable, adorable, cuddly child for our sakes. And because we too can carry Christ within us, as Mary did.
Remember that God is outside of time and space: we can encounter Him on the Cross, or in the Garden. We can certainly find him in the Manger.
Hey, you all claim she was born sinless. That means she never had a choice about whether to sin or not.
Which also means that if God made her sinless (which He did not) so she could bear Jesus, then she had no choice in that either because she couldn’t have done any different.
God took her free choice about whether to sin or not from her. And now you’re trying to convince us she had a choice about bearing Jesus?
Nobody asked her permission and just because God knew what her response would be doesn’t mean He chose her because of that.
His plan for redemption did not depend on Mary’s “cooperation”.
The angel came, told her what was going to happen, told her what she was to name the child, and that was that.
You can call God a rapist all you want for that but all it does is reveal the depravity of the Catholic mind for even THINKING of such a thing. Catholics have some issue with sex that is just unfathomable.
Mary is not the mother of God.
God has no mother.
Mary is the mother of Jesus as the Holy Spirit tells us in Scripture.The argument that *Mary is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God therefore Mary is the mother of God*, leads to the following conclusions using the same (for lack of a better term) *logic*:
If Mary is the mother of God and God is the Trinity, then Mary is the mother of the Trinity.
That puts Mary above the Godhead, makes Mary deity, makes her the mother of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, making them created, finite beings with beginning.
It totally messes up all kinds of theology.
Do Catholics EVER think through what they have been spoon fed for their entire lives, cause it sure doesn't look that way with the arguments they use.
I'll stick with agreeing with the Holy Spirit in what He inspired in Scripture: *Mary, the mother of Jesus*.
That way, I KNOW I can't be wrong.
The Holy Spirit is clear in Scripture in calling Mary *the mother of Jesus*.
John 2:1 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
John 2:3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
Acts 1:14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
Why does the Catholic religion presume to think that Scripture needs clarifying? That they can improve on the work the Holy Spirit did in inspiring the very Word of God?
No - someone who is sinless doesn’t mean ‘someone who has no choice whether to sin or not’.
The Angel Gabriel was and is sinless. Are you saying that He has no free will?
Christ was and is sinless. Are you saying that He has no free will?
And - ah, Metmom. You’re the one who allowed that God might have coerced Mary into carrying Christ. I just put a name to your sin.
The immaculate conception is a fairy tale promulgated by the Catholic religion.
There is no such thing mentioned in Scripture and there’s no need for it for Mary to bear Jesus.
Mary did NOT need to be sinless to bear Jesus.
The sin nature is passed down by the FATHER, not the mother.
Jesus did not inherit the human sin nature because God is His father, not because Mary was somehow kept sinless, which, if God could to that for Mary born of a sinful mother, then He most certainly could do it for Jesus, being born of a sinful mother.
Your error comes in not understanding the Holy Trinity.
The Trinity consists of three completely separate Divine Persons. Those Persons are: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
Although the Persons are separate, their natures are exactly the same; that is how they are one God, even though they are three Persons.
The Blessed Mother gave birth to the second Person of the Trinity, God the Son.
Jesus (God the Son) is both fully Divine and fully Human. Mary is His mother, hence she is the Mother of God.
Here is the error that you have made. Mary is not the mother of all three Persons of the Holy Trinity. She is the mother of God the Son.
No she didn't, because what you are saying is that the Second person of the Trinity did not exist until Mary gave birth to Jesus.
The Second Person of the Trinity preexisted Mary. She gave birth to the incarnation of the second person of the Trinity, but not to His divine nature.
His divine nature was not dependent on her, which is what you are saying happened.
wrong. If Mary said no (which God already knew would not happen) another would have been chosen. Gods plan of salvation depends on no human.
If Mary had been under original sin, how would she have been able to give assent without reservation to Gabriel’s message? She would have been holding back in part. Therefore Jesus would not have been fully human. Not being truly one of us, the atonement would have been a fraud.
“Trinity” is not mentioned in Scripture either.
Where in Scripture does it say that you must believe what’s there and ONLY what’s there?
How did God *coerce* her?
You guys attribute all kinds of nefarious things to God for deciding how to manage His creation and plan of redemption.
And honestly, God has the RIGHT to use people as HE so chooses.
HE is the creator. Everything is His and even our very life is from Him. He is more than free to do with people as He chooses whether they like it of not.
Catholic teaching that Mary was kept from sin does indeed remove the choice from her. It means she was prevented from it. IOW, she didn’t have a choice in the matter.
Not at all. She was an ordinary sinful human. That was the whole point. Christ humbled Himself to be born of a human so He could bear our sin. Mary was not special Christ IS.
Galatians 4:4. You lose.
Galatians 4:4 does not apply in any way to her alleged sinlessness.
You catholics are so cute when you try to distort scripture. Galations 4:4 said Christ was born of a woman which mary undisputedly was. It does not say He sent His Son to be born of a sinless woman.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.