When Poland Saved Europe

The Daily Chrenk ^ | Aug 10 2020 | Arthur Chrenkoff

[grey_whiskers]

A hundred years ago this week, a series of biggest battles that Europe were to witness between the end of the First World War in 1918 and the beginning of the Spanish Civil War in 1936 decided the fate of the continent as much as, if not more than, the Great War itself. In early August 1920, the newly resurrected, independent Poland saved the Eastern Europe, Germany and possibly the rest of the war-exhausted Europe from the triumphant Russian communism. As a result of a little known war in the distant corners of the continent, the status quo of the East was preserved for another two decades.

[dfwgator]

The International Gay Mafia is attacking Poland.

[NorseViking]

I am sorry, but it is a propaganda.
Russia wasn’t in a shape to invade anyone at the time.
It has just lost WWI, was in a revolutionary turmoil and a Civil War was brewing.
Poland exploited this opportunity for a land grab.
The Soviets granted it independence from the Russian Empire among others. One of the first Polish moves were to attack Lithuania, Ukraine and Belarus.
In fact this Polish actions triggered the creation of the Soviet Union.
Ukraine and Belarus turned to RSFSR for protection and it resulted in a union state.
Red Army managed to liberate Ukraine and Belarus and parts of Lithuania.
Lithuania decided to stay independent, Ukraine and Belarus joined Russia and later former the Soviet Union.
Soviet counter offensive reached Warsaw and then failed.
It was anything but the Soviet aggression.
I very much respect the Polish suffering in the 20th century but it makes sense to them to admit to their own crimes once in a while.

[Varda]

I didn’t know about that narraitve until a “resistance fighter” came to our school system and gave a speech for the kids. What he actually did was help the Soviets conquer Poland. His claim was that he joined the Soviet army to drive the Nazi’s out of Poland. Because he labeled himself Jewish his story was accepted uncritically.

[bravo whiskey]

Poland was indefensible in 1939. Purely militarily the only defense was to fall back to the Vistula but that would give up the manufacturing base in the western half of the country. And East Prussia due north of Warsaw did not help either. Probably could have held at ww1 speeds but not motorized speeds.

[bravo whiskey]

Western Ukraine has belonged to many countries. Lvov has 5 different names including Lemberg depending on what map and time frame you use. After the Bolshevik coup in October 1917 Ukraine broke away and broke into various red, white, green(nationalists) and black(anarchists) “governments”. Between Dec 1917 and June 1920 Kiev changed hands 16 times.
Poland wanted the reform the Polish Lithuania empire from the past but it did not happen. Poland also let the remaining white army attack out of Crimea in 1920and did not support them because the whites wanted to restore the russian empire including Poland.
The red army was up to the fight. The red army leadership was fractured and the 2 wings did not cooperate. This is where the break between Stalin and Tukhachevsky started culminating in Tukhachevsky and his entire family being arrested and murdered by Stalin in 1937.

[NorseViking]

That is partially true but for some reason the story of Warsaw miracle misses a lot of important details on what led to it. That inclused the last pre-WWII pogrom of the Jews in Minsk by the Polish Army.

[Verdelet]

Russia lost WWI?? Where did you get that sh*t from?
Russia was part of the allied group with France and Britain. They won but heavy losses, poor economic situation and the work of revolutionaries led to the fall of the Tsardom.
The rest of your post is BS also. Get your facts straight boyo.

[jmacusa]

About four years ago there was a demonstration in Warsaw Poland. A million Poles, A MILLION of them turned out in Warsaw to pray the Rosary and to loudly proclaim “Jesus Christ is our king. We will never submit to Islam!''. I only found out about it on You Tube.

[jmacusa]

Um, Russia took itself out of the war in 1917 and undertook a communist revolution and said “To Hell with capitalist wars of expropriation!’’ and made a peace deal with Germany. The peace deal was the reason Lenin was allowed back into Russia.

[Little Ray]

“When Poland saved Europe - AGAIN!”

There. Fixed it.

[NorseViking]

If you want to refute my points you are welcome but, please, be factual.
Just to say BS is not enough, especially when we are talking about propaganda.
Russia was out of war early, because Lenin was a German spy. That was the entire point of the Communist revolution and why the German intelligence paid for it.
Lenin surrendered on the Eastern front as part of the deal and gave up on Western parts of Russian Empire.
Germany later planned to gobble it for itself but the Western allies prevailed.
Poland, being itself a part of these released Russian territories, decided to improve its standing by establishing the Empire of its own. They acted like opportunists exploiting the vaccum of power and turmoil.
Bolsheviks managed to get back most of it in a couple years and that is largely because the treatment of the locals by the Polish was dismal.
In fact in 1939 Stalin took back the rest of the lands annexed by Poland at the end of WWII.
It was somewhat pitiful for modern Ukraine because exactly these territories made it into a Third World country nowadays.

[Cronos]

I'm sorry but it isn't propaganda.

After winning the Whites vs Reds Russian civil war, the Soviets under Lenin and Trotsky were in expansion mode.

they saw the turmoil in Germany and saw GERMANY as the heartland of the communist revolution. Poland stood in the way.

the Soviets aimed to first reconquer the old Tsarist empire and then get to GErmany.

"the Soviets granted it independence" -- what are you smoking? The Soviets signed the Brest Litovsk act giving up western Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, not to mention all of what woudl be Poland, to the German empire.

After the German empire collapsed, the Poles took their land back.

"One of the first Polish moves"??

In 1919 lenin declared the dictatorship of the proletariat, and agitated for a worldwide Communist community.

The Bolsheviks had an avowed intent to link the revolution in Russia with an expected revolution in Germany and to assist other Communist movements in Western Europe; Poland was the geographical bridge that the Red Army would have to cross to provide direct physical support in the West.

The Red Army entered Polotsk on 21 November, Drissa and Rahachow on 22 November, Zhlobin on 24 November, Babruysk on 28 November, Barysaw on 3 December, Slutsk on 8 December and Igumen on 9 December. On 10 December 1918, the Red Army entered Minsk almost unopposed, putting an end to the short-lived Belarusian People's Republic. On 1 January 1919, the Socialist Soviet Republic of Byelorussia (SSRB) was proclaimed in Smolensk. On 8 January, the SSRB government relocated to Minsk. At the same time Polish and Belarusian self-defence units sprung up across western Belarus. Ill-equipped and composed mostly of local recruits, they were determined to defend their homes from what the newspapers described as a "Red menace".

The first moves of the Soviet Russians after defeating the Whites was to head west

[Cronos]

Red Army managed to liberate Ukraine and Belarus and parts of Lithuania.

Liberate?? you mean prepare for slaughter and expulsion to Siberian gulags

The Soviets conquered the Belarussian and West Ukrainian republics, they didn't "liberate them" - no more than the USSR "liberated" Eastern europe in 1944-1945 - the latter was the soviets conquering land from the nazis.

[Cronos]

Ukraine and Belarus joined Russia -- your Russian history books lie. the ukraine and Belarus were conquered by the soviets and piecemeal put into the USSR

[Cronos]

“because he labeled himself jewish” — and there were a lot of those who labelled themselves Jewish but killed people of the Jewish ethnicity (the same as theirs) enthusiastically.

These “Jews” gave a bad name to real Jews.

[NorseViking]

One thing for sure. Poland was even less popular than USSR there. Lithuania managed to stay independent until 1940.
I am not saying any of two parties were good.

[Cronos]

Poland in 1939 COULD have held off the Germans at the rivers and the southern mountains as you say, bravo whiskey, but then the Soviets invaded and crushed that - or as NorseViking would say, the Soviets “liberated eastern Poland to join the glorious motherland”

[Cronos]

pre-WWII pogrom of the Jews in Minsk by the Polish Army.

More Russian distortion

Before WWII, Minsk was controlled by the Soviets

Also, "pogroms" are a Russian thing since Tsarist times - they were started and done in Tsarist Russia

In June 1919,the Jewish First Guard Soviet Battalion from Minsk – at the insistence of its own members – was deployed by the Bolsheviks against the Polish Army which included the First and the Second Lithuanian–Belarusian Divisions

as retribution against the Jewish regiments, they killed 31 Jews suspected of supporting the Bolshevist movement, beat and attacked many more, looted 377 Jewish-owned shops (aided by the local civilians) and ransacked many private homes

horrific stuff, but no pogrom -- the Soviets pushed their battalions forward to foment ethnic hatred - just like the Russian penned "protocols of the elders of Zion"

[NorseViking]

Don’t be manipulative. I am clearly talking about 1920 and not about 1939.
And as for your ‘Poland taking back its land’ I fail to see it as any different than ‘Soviets took back the Russian Empire’. In the Soviet case in 1920 excluding unwilling territories.

[Cronos]

Bravo whiskey's post is not "partially true" but completely, verifiably true

Western Ukraine has belonged to many countries. Lvov has 5 different names including Lemberg depending on what map and time frame you use. After the Bolshevik coup in October 1917 Ukraine broke away and broke into various red, white, green(nationalists) and black(anarchists) “governments”. Between Dec 1917 and June 1920 Kiev changed hands 16 times.

Poland wanted the reform the Polish Lithuania empire from the past but it did not happen. Poland also let the remaining white army attack out of Crimea in 1920and did not support them because the whites wanted to restore the russian empire including Poland.

The red army was up to the fight. The red army leadership was fractured and the 2 wings did not cooperate. This is where the break between Stalin and Tukhachevsky started culminating in Tukhachevsky and his entire family being arrested and murdered by Stalin in 1937.

The Warsaw miracle was Poland defeating the Soviet invasion of Europe.