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When Poland Saved Europe
The Daily Chrenk ^ | Aug 10 2020 | Arthur Chrenkoff

Posted on 08/10/2020 6:26:51 AM PDT by grey_whiskers

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To: Cronos

So, some Jews fought for the Soviets. That made looting 400 Jewish businesses and killing dozens of people okay by your book. Nice. Are you a BLM guy?


41 posted on 08/11/2020 11:37:47 PM PDT by NorseViking
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To: Verdelet
in 1917 there were two revolutions in Russia - the first overthrew the Tsar and kept the war running.

Then the Soviets came and said they'd sue for peace. And they did

42 posted on 08/11/2020 11:41:36 PM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: Cronos

“” “The Warsaw miracle was Poland defeating the Soviet invasion of Europe.” “”

Yep, true:) The myths has to be protected aggressively like you do.

Then you’d say the Jews deserve to get killed because the Communists were among them. You already did.

I very much respect the Polish suffering in the past century but you’d do better without myths and lies.

All the crimes from all sides need to be acknowledged.

You can’t build national identity on baloney. It is a shaky foundation.


43 posted on 08/11/2020 11:43:24 PM PDT by NorseViking
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To: Cronos

“” “Poland wanted the reform the Polish Lithuania empire from the past but it did not happen.” “” “

It is nice to see you are admitting to empire-building.
Too bad nobody wanted to be a Polish colony.
Ukrainians hated Polish occupation enough to bring enormous retributions 20 years later although it is not to be supported.
Anyway, we may argue did Ukraine and Belarus rejected the Polish empire voluntary or not, but what about Lithuania? Why Lithuania remained out? It is not if the Soviets wanted it in 1920.


44 posted on 08/11/2020 11:49:19 PM PDT by NorseViking
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To: NorseViking
"Empire from the past" is not the same as empire building

Piłsudski who was a Polonized Lithuanian, emphatically wanted a Międzymorze - a mutual respect union of equals to keep away the Muscowites and the Germans

The Ukrainians didn't "hate" the Poles and it wasn't polish "occupation"

The Bandera group were a small fraction who also massacred Russians

Lithuania was an intrinsic part of the Polish-lithuanian commonwealth before the Russians came and tore it apart, leading to Russia starting the pogroms against the Jews.

If you Moscowites hadn't partitioned the Polish-lithuanian commonwealth, you would still have your Tsarist empire. And if the Soviet Russians hadn't taken Poland, you would still have your Soviet empire

45 posted on 08/12/2020 12:25:34 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: NorseViking

Firstly - not a myth - the fact is that Poland prevented the Soviet Russian hordes from invading the rest of europe and imposing communism on the continent.

Secondly, “crimes from all sides”? really - Katyn, Russians shooting prisoners in the back of the head? Or the holodomor? The forced starvation of Ukrainians?

The crimes of the Soviet Russians in the 20th century and the Tsarists Russians in the 19th century are innumerable and incomparable to any perceived crimes of others.

you guys wrote the “Protocols of the elders of Zion”, and Russians under the Tsars set up the gulags and NKVD’s predecessors


46 posted on 08/12/2020 12:28:42 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: NorseViking

Soviet Russian crimes like Katyn were and are continuously denied

furthermore you Russians are taught that you "liberated" Eastern Europe and are shocked that people there don't repeat that lie. The Soviets defeated the Nazis and took over the empire. No "liberation"

47 posted on 08/12/2020 12:30:39 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: NorseViking
the only case where Russians didn't 'liberate' was Yugoslavia


48 posted on 08/12/2020 12:31:32 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: NorseViking
Let's take for example the Russian "liberation" of Hungary:

In elections held in November 1945, the Independent Smallholders' Party won 57% of the vote. The Hungarian Communist Party, now under the leadership of Mátyás Rákosi and Ernő Gerő, two survivors from the Hungarian Soviet Republic of 1919, received support from only 17% of the population. The Soviet commander in Hungary, Marshal Kliment Voroshilov, refused to allow the Smallholders Party to form a government. Instead Voroshilov established a coalition government with the communists holding some of the key posts. Under Parliament, the leader of the Smallholders, Zoltán Tildy, was named president and Ferenc Nagy prime minister in February 1946. Mátyás Rákosi became deputy prime minister.

In February 1947 the police began arresting leaders of the Smallholders Party and the National Peasant Party. It also pressured both parties to expel those members who weren't willing to do the Communists' bidding as "fascists." Several prominent figures in both parties escaped abroad. Later, Rákosi boasted that he had dealt with his partners in the government, one by one, "cutting them off like slices of salami."

In October 1947, Rákosi gave the leaders of the non-Communist parties an ultimatum: cooperate with a new, Communist-dominated coalition government or go into exile..

That's your 'Russian liberation'

49 posted on 08/12/2020 12:35:46 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: NorseViking
your Russian "liberation" of Ukraine, Belarus in the 20s and then Central Europe in the 40s was encapsulated by Tintin


50 posted on 08/12/2020 12:38:07 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: Cronos

“” “Let’s take for example the Russian “liberation” of Hungary:”” “

Let’s not take for example things what are unrelated?

As for the Soviet ‘liberation’ of East Europe people are still living there.

If not for it a few had a chance to speak German to serve their new masters but the majority were destined to be converted into soap and leather gloves.


51 posted on 08/12/2020 1:21:15 AM PDT by NorseViking
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To: Cronos

Lithuania was an intrinsic part of the
“” “ Polish-lithuanian commonwealth before the Russians came and tore it apart, leading to Russia starting the pogroms against the Jews.

If you Moscowites hadn’t partitioned the Polish-lithuanian commonwealth, you would still have your Tsarist empire. And if the Soviet Russians hadn’t taken Poland, you would still have your Soviet empire”””

Except that Lithuania and other former constituent don’t want to hear about it anymore. They are doing just fine without Poland telling them how to run their railroads.

As for pogroms do you mean the Russians made the Polish do it? Okay. What an excuse!

My take is that Polish prometheism in different forms and overall penis-envy towards Russia and Germany brought enormous misery on Poland since 17th century.

Did you think what was behind the different treatment of Poland and Finland, both Russia’s former constituents after WWII by the Soviets?

Poland currently enjoys the best living standards it had ever. Why not stick to it instead of developing myths and distorting history?

I think if Poland would try empire building at the expense of more competent neighbors it would inevitably fall again. This time forever.

Or alternatively Poland might be an example of success without an empire.


52 posted on 08/12/2020 1:40:36 AM PDT by NorseViking
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To: NorseViking

Actually Lithuania DOES want to hear about it. And Lithuania is allying with Poland to keep the Muscowites out

As to pogroms - all were carried out in Russia itself. The attack in Minsk in 1919 was not a pogrom - it was a crime nonetheless, but not a state-sanctioned pogrom like the Tsarist Russia did.

Nah, the 17th century Poland conquered Moscow in 1610. The miseries were in the late 18th century when Russia, Prussia partitioned Poland.


53 posted on 08/12/2020 3:08:55 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: NorseViking
Did you think what was behind the different treatment of Poland and Finland, both Russia’s former constituents after WWII by the Soviets?

Finland gave Russia a bloody nose in the Winter War - the Finns killed 400,000 Russians at a loss of 71,000 of their own.

The Soviets didn't want that land - as Finland was wasteland

The Muscowites on the other hand wanted poland as a gateway to attack the west.

THAT's why you Russians killed off the democratically elected republics in Central Europe and replaced them with Moscow controlled communists

54 posted on 08/12/2020 3:10:59 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: NorseViking
I think if Poland would try empire building at the expense of more competent neighbors it would inevitably fall again. This time forever

Nah, Russia was not more competent - just brutal - because you learnt your methods from the Mongols, not from Kievan Rus. That's why the Ukrainians see themselves as the true inheritors of Kievan Rus, not the Turco-Mongol Moscowites.

55 posted on 08/12/2020 3:12:18 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: Cronos

“” “” Actually Lithuania DOES want to hear about it. And Lithuania is allying with Poland to keep the Muscowites out””” “

Luthuania is a part of NATO and has a GDP per capita much higher than Poland.
They do just fine on their own. Why would they need basket case Poland to run them?

” “” “As to pogroms - all were carried out in Russia itself. The attack in Minsk in 1919 was not a pogrom - it was a crime nonetheless, but not a state-sanctioned pogrom like the Tsarist Russia did.” “” “

Is there something you did yourself or everything you did is someone’s else fault.
Research the pogroms. Where they took place? There were no Russians anywhere near.

As for Minsk pogrom I got your point. It had to be pogrom-pogrom. Whoopi Goldberg is it you?

According to you when the Polish military kills Jews and ransack businesses it is not pogrom but ‘peaceful protest’. There are might be Communist among them! Sick.

“”””Nah, the 17th century Poland conquered Moscow in 1610. The miseries were in the late 18th century when Russia, Prussia partitioned Poland.””””

Hmmm. What was Poland ‘conquered’ Moscow? Maybe in light of that partition was a half-measure response? Or maybe we should call it ‘miracle on Moscow river’ to match the Polish propaganda?

I’d say your arguments are rather strange to say the least.


56 posted on 08/12/2020 3:21:20 AM PDT by NorseViking
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To: Cronos

“” “” Nah, Russia was not more competent - just brutal - because you learnt your methods from the Mongols, not from Kievan Rus. That’s why the Ukrainians see themselves as the true inheritors of Kievan Rus, not the Turco-Mongol Moscowites.”” “

LOL. And finally a race card:) So predictable.

I smell blatant neo-prometheism here and it seems like the Polish government is encouraging it.

You guys better forget it and remember how it has finished every other time.

Are you ready for another partition?

Being a bully and a weakling at the same time is a poor combination.

But you can always invent heroic myths and play victim after being crushed as a result.


57 posted on 08/12/2020 3:30:31 AM PDT by NorseViking
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To: NorseViking

A race card? Nah - the Ukrainians are East Slavs and Muscowites have largely Slavic blood - mixed with Turco-Mongol and Finno-Ugric blood.

The Muscowite CULTURE on the other hand - especially the political structure - the political structure is taken from your erstwhile overlords, the great Khans.

As to partitions - nah, Russia is headed for another split after Putin goes. This time the chinese look set to take over Siberia, while the oligarch carve up the Russias


58 posted on 08/12/2020 4:07:11 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: NorseViking

Lithuania is part of NATO and the EU and is an equal to Poland.

It’s no longer enslaved by Moscow - and they area happy for that.

They don’t need a basket case Russia to rule them

The pogroms were Russian state sponsored murders of Jews in the Pale.

Talking of the “Pale” - why do you think your Tsars and Tsarinas did that?


59 posted on 08/12/2020 4:09:13 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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To: NorseViking

Nah, the partition was because your German blood Tsarina decided to fall for Frederick the Great’s plan to keep Russia and Austria at loggerheads.

The net result was that the 19th century was spent with Muscow needlessly involved in Central European affairs and culminating with the end of the Muscowite empire in 1917


60 posted on 08/12/2020 4:10:32 AM PDT by Cronos (Re-elect President Trump 2020!)
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