Posted on 06/11/2011 3:46:44 PM PDT by Kartographer
In today’s “modern” globalist economy, we have relied upon centralized and highly manipulated trade, forced interdependency, senseless and undisciplined consumption, endless debt creation, welfare addiction, and the erosion of quality, as a means to sustain a system that ultimately is DESIGNED to erode our freedoms not to mention our ability to effectively take care of ourselves. We have been infantized by our financial environment. In the near future, those who wish to live beyond a meager staple of government handouts (if any are even given) will be required to make a 180 degree reversal from their current lifestyle of dependency and immediate gratification towards one of self sufficiency, personal entrepreneurship, quality trade, and a mindset of necessity, rather than unfounded excess.
This means that each and every one of us will not only be driven to form barter networks outside the designated confines of the mainstream, we will have to become active producers within those networks. Each and every one of us will need to discover practical goods and skills that will be in high demand regardless of economic conditions. Being that our society has all but forgotten how this kind of trade works, let’s examine a short list of items as well as proficiencies that are sure to be highly sought after as the collapse progresses…
(Excerpt) Read more at randysright.wordpress.com ...
Won't be an economic system, so that shouldn't take long.
In living memory, gardens were what people ate. Shopping lists consisted of salt, coffee, sugar.
And yes, I trade my excess, or store it for a bad heat wave/winter. I've got stored pork products that didn't come from any store, enough to last until next spring, even assuming I don't take more ferals or get a deer or squirrel or 50.
As someone else said, you need to get out more, and find out what most of humanity has done for most of human history to survive. Instead of assuming your bubble world will persist.
/johnny
>>I grew up in a rural farm community during the carter(spit) years. The seventies sucked economically speaking. Our family of five was more or less broke. Dad had a good job and Mom took care of the kids but the there were times when the summer garden kept us fed. My mom was a genius at turning broke food into good meals. Canning, freezing, making jelly out of wild fruit and berries... yeah my Momma did all that. My dad wasn’t much for hunting (it was a Vietnam thing) but my uncle made sure we had a deer almost every year.<<
And yet, I and 99% of Americans survived the carter era with no garden at all.
As I said — gardening and hunting are a great supplement, but we can’t shift our economy back to an agrarian one. It ain’t gonna happen
Can you say where you live (in general if you prefer to avoid specifics) and what you plant for each seasonal crop?
It does work. Horses still are a better way to travel than shank's mare. And those of us that know how to find/refine fuels to run equipment (or even build equipment, ref one of my posts back in 2001 with a successful homebuilt, running engine, still in use today)
Don't feel bad that you don't have the skill-sets to thrive or even survive a post-apocolyptic scenario. Be positive. You can always learn a trade and indenture yourself to a local lord. And I'll have booze available on holidays.
/johnny
The ongoing count out of our six laying hens as of the end of May was 700 eggs, (58.3 dozen) this year to date...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2681583/posts
As much as I appreciate venison, don't neglect squirrels. They can be taken down with a 0.22 air rifle, the supply of those cute rodents is nearly limitless, and the amount of ammunition that can be stored (and even used for practice) is nearly limitless.
>>In living memory, gardens were what people ate. Shopping lists consisted of salt, coffee, sugar.<<
When you sent Hoss into town to restock the Ponderosa?
You might be quite fine in a self-contained farm of sorts. A handful might be.
But most people in the USA live in cities/suburbs. We rely on manufactured products such as gasoline, refined sugar (yes, that is manufactured), plastics, clothing, booze, etc.
It isn’t me that is in the bubble. You might be able to “survive” — but the entire globe to fall back to an Amish level of technology? Even Haiti isn’t there.
It doesn’t make any sense outside of adverse extraterrestrial intervention.
Yes, it can. Quickly. In the passing of one winter. See Europe after the black death for a preview.
All that has to happen is that the cities die/kill themselves off during a severe economic downturn. Like Chicago or Detroit, only faster. Those places (in some areas) already look post-apocolyptic, and you don't want to be there during daylight, much less the dark.
/johnny
I think what folks fear is the day when food has become so expensive and those able to donate so few, in comparison with the need, that more and more of our food will come from our own labor. The government is always going to concentrate relief efforts in the urban areas and as things stand now, unless there is a huge change, more and more of the relief efforts go to those who politically support the regime.
It isn’t that there won’t be stores, or goods or money and a functioning economy, but that 25%-30% of the population will not be able to afford anything. That is a huge percentage. Isn’t it better if half of those folks are able to provide for themselves, reducing the societal angst for everyone else?
As for seeds, if people are raising open pollinated crops, then the seeds are renewable year to year, so stockpiling them is only for that first Spring for the newbie gardeners. Interestingly enough, this year I purchased some organic green bean seeds for $1.50 for 21 seeds. Half of them germinated. 3 plants made it to the garden. Store bought seeds will not always produce.
I used to laugh at the seedsavers, but I have begun to save and plant my own and it is very satisfying. I haven’t had to purchase tomato sauce or paste for years. I can make salad dressing or any tomato sauce or ketchup from my dried tomatoes whenever I like. Each year I add more crops and have more things I do not have to buy. Since income is down and taxes are up, that helps. The same is true of anything we can provide for ourselves, be it food or other goods.
Most preppers would rather eat dirt than rely on a handout from anyone. Most feel more secure in the idea of trading skills than waiting for a job to become available. Even people who have income and assets are beginning to seek self-sufficiency.
It is a positive way to handle the anxiety induced by this economy and this administration. There is less and less confidence in the future and more of us have suddenly experienced, if not poverty, then reduced circumstances. I think it is good that the reaction is to work towards independence and prepare for an economic disaster. If it doesn’t happen, then great. No one will have to shop for a year. If it does, then those who are sanguine in their ability to always have income with which to shop from well-stocked stores will only have to provide for a few others instead of an overwhelming mass of hungry, cold and ill-clothed homeless.
My plan is to lead a gang of really mean biker-types and just take whatever the heck I/we want.
If you want to posit a post-collapse world then let's take it all the way. It will be rough, it will be mean, it will be Might Makes Right.
The farms will fall first. The farmers will be enslaved to feed us who have the power.
"Mad Max" (all versions) will seem like a Disney cartoon compared to the real result.
A handful of people with rifles will be easily swept away.
Even if you disagree, I guarantee you that life will be much tougher than you can imagine.
And, it ain't gonna happen. It might be fun to picture oneself as a Lazarus Long type of frontiersman, but that won't happen in our lifetime. The gas lines of the carter administration are as bad as it will get.
A handful may be all that survive. I've made a point of being qualified to be in that number.
Most people in cities/suburbs are 21 days from starvation. There are 3-5 days worth of food in the grocery stores.
You live in a fragile world. I wish you luck.
My world is not so fragile.
/johnny
You have just defined the term "cognative dissonance".
The "Thunderdome" reality you mention is actually a higher probability future than things going back to "normal".
Your analysis was great until you got there. No one in the USA except the Amish/Mennonites (etc.) will go a year without shopping. 99.99% of the USA won't go a WEEK without shopping.
That is why I keep emphasizing that gardening, hunting, living a quasi-agrarian life is a great supplement. But to hoard gold, create an insular compound, etc. just isn't practical.
It is fun fantasizing, but it won't even make sense after "the collapse."
Well said. I didn’t originally start a vegetable garden for economic reasons, but because I knew that fresh crops taste way better than anything I could buy at the grocery store. Over the years though, I’ve come to rely on my own garden and my gardening skill more and more, as both a money saver and an enjoyable activity. Given a choice, I would always rather rely on my own skills than have to rely on someone else’s, and I’d much rather know that I have some skills now than hope to have time to develop them later.
You know we aren't there right? And as bad as things are we probably won't go quite that far...?
If you really think that is in our near future then I suggest you go ahead and start hoarding gold and seeds.
And watch out for my biker/smokers gang. because we will just take what you worked so hard to build. I'll even let that nutcase wear his mask-thingy so long as he does my bidding.
(Hey, if we are fantasizing a post apocalyptic world, I am going to project the scenario I can probably create).
Every list always leaves off the most important preparation:
GET TO KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS AND FIGURE WHICH ONES YOU CAN RELY ON!
Some will flee; most will stay.
Organize your neighborhood if defense or other measures become necessary.
I always approach this with neighbors as “hurricane/tornado prep” because of where we are. Most are scared of the economy, but few expect societal breakdown.
Groups and teams always have more capability than individuals.
Then I hope you've studied Tsun Tzu, Clausewitz, Fredrick the Great, Schwartzkopf, Sherman, Jackson, Rommel, (my personal favorite) Stillwell, and all of the other greats that most 'farmers' like me have studied.
Because really mean doesn't win. Knowledge and logistics wins.
Your average Roman soldat was much more bloodthirsty than your average biker-type today. And our average US Army type is the wimp that wins wars. And disposes of barbarians, of the kind you postulate.
'Study to show thyself approved, a workman that needs not be ashamed.'
Learning new skillsets is fullfilling in it's own right, and can be helpful during normal natural disasters.
/johnny
Well, if living in the 18th Century works for you, I won't gainsay your decisions.
I like things like electricity, computers (what are you posting with?), refrigeration, air conditioning, automobiles, airplanes,etc.
If all these things disappear in 21 days the I guess we will be back to the 18th century and, until you get overrun, you will be in pretty good shape.
If anyone truly thinks that scenario will play out worldwide, I congratulate you on your ability to play role playing games.
1. Bullets - varied calibres.
George Washington was a farmer that brewed his own beer and had a distillery at Mt. Vernon. The British didn't take what he worked for, neither did the barbarians (Irish or Indians) that were extant at the time.
You seem down on survivalists.
What is the opposite of a survivalist?
/johnny
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