Posted on 05/07/2016 7:34:23 PM PDT by PinkChampagneonIce
Dear Freeper Preppers:
I have tried to find answers to these questions, and just haven't had much luck. Freepers are always incredibly knowledgeable, so I thought I would throw this out for general comment.
I live somewhat off the grid, in that I live with a bare minimum of electrical appliances. I have a small, motel-sized refrigerator. Its temperature varies. It is so small, that the thermometer will indicate a 5 degree reduction in temperature if I just open the door. During the winter, it is fairly easy to keep it below 40. During the summer, that becomes a challenge. There are many days when the temperature is high that it remains at 45 or so.
The conventional wisdom is that if the temperature rises about 40 the bacteria, germs, microbes, whatever, start growing in food and make it unsafe to eat. As anyone who has lived as I do knows, that is simply not true. For example, sometimes I will buy a pre-cooked rotisserie chicken at the market. It is hot when I buy it, and warm when I put it in the refrigerator. Even if the refrigerator thermometer is showing 45 degrees, the chicken doesn’t automatically “spoil.” If it is in a sealed container/packaging, it is good for at least three days, even though it is chicken, which is considered notoriously likely to spoil. After the three days, I can still use it if I put in in a soup or stew which is boiled for more than 10-15 minutes. I can also refrigerate leftovers for at least 2-3 days without any harmful effects. So just because something is stored below 40 degrees does not necessarily mean that it has spoiled or is dangerous.
Before refrigeration, people used ice boxes. They were insulated, and cooled with blocks of ice. Having done this when I was young on camping trips, I sincerely doubt they maintained a temperature below 40 degrees. Although some people suffered from “summer sickness” from spoiled food, people weren’t dropping like flies. Obviously, some foods are more likely to spoil in a way that causes sickness than others, although this is completely obscured by the modern warnings that anything cooled about 40 degrees is unsafe. I know that in Great Britain, people do not refrigerate items which we are told MUST be refrigerated – for example, jams, mayonnaise, etc. My understanding is that in medieval times spices were prized because they made “tainted” meat palatable.
And so, to my question. For those who have lived off the grid, or in less developed countries, do you have any other guidelines than those which say everything must be cooled below 40 degrees? In your experience, which foods spoil the fastest, and in the most dangerous fashion? Which spoil but are just nasty, not life threatening? In an emergency situation, which foods should be absolutely avoided after a certain time at a certain temperature, and which can be worked with by boiling for 10-15 minutes or charring over an open fire. When is “tainted” meat OK to eat, and when will it kill you?
I’m posting this fairly late in the evening. I’m going to bed, so I won’t be replying to this thread until tomorrow or Monday. I really appreciate your input on this topic.
I know, but I don’t want to eat mineral oil, even in small amounts. If it’s a short term survival type situation that’s one thing, but OP is talking long term way of life.
That way, you won't lose your cool when you open it up.
I forgot to add that when you pour the sausage grease
over the cooked sausage patties, it will cool, harden &
totally seal the patties for storage. - Also, corn
cleaned & kept on the cob will keep in a fairly salt
brine (cover the corn with the brine to store; then you
can cut it off the cob or boil it as needed).
Refrigerating warm chicken is a bad idea. Let it cool to room temp. And keep cooked meat and poultry separate from raw stuff.
Thank you for that info. We used to have a few chickens and I know they are sneaky about hiding their eggs sometimes. We were getting more eggs than we needed and they were a bit of an experiment for us, so anything that we didn’t get out of the nest boxes we just got rid of them or gave them to the dogs .
later
I once owned a travel trailer with a three-way refrigerator in it.
While driving, it could be powered from the truck alternator, making it convenient to stop at service stations without having to make a prior stop to turn off the propane flame.
While camping in developed camp sites with electrical power, it would run on 120 volts, meaning there was no need to monitor propane or battery usage.
Finally, when camping where power was not available, it would run on propane.
After running it while parked in snow or in hot deserts, it became quite apparent that the refrigeration system was "open loop". It had a throttle which controlled how much heat was being pumped out of the storage box, but it lacked a feedback system to turn the power off or on based on temperature such as would happen with a home refrigerator.
We learned to decrease the setting while in warm environments to keep things cold and to increase the setting when in the snow to prevent freezing everything in the box.
One successful tactic for reducing the uncertainty of the results was to load the storage box with water containers as much as possible. Once cooled to the proper temperature these would act as a buffer preventing rapid changes in temperature. The bottles would slow down the cooling, so one had to plan ahead by cooling them early. Then they would slow down heating during hot days or when the door is opened. At the same time they would make it less likely that everything would freeze.
As others have suggested, you might need to add external insulation to preserve the cooling once it has been achieved.
I learned the hard way years ago that home refrigerators need air to circulate between the freezer and the non-frozen storage box in order to work properly. This especially applies to "frost-free" refrigerators, (Which is probably the only thing made these days.)
My frost-free fridge failed to defrost properly and the passage from the frozen food box to the non-frozen food area blocked up completely with ice. What a mess that was.
If your refrigerator is able to make ice, then it should be able to maintain a temperature much below 40 degrees. If it will not make ice, then I would be suspicious that it is malfunctioning. Realize that a refrigeration system is a heat pump. It pumps heat from the storage box to the outside of the refrigerator. You must make sure that the heat delivered to the external coils can be carried off and not allow the coils to be too warm. For example, it may be that your refrigerator is too close to a wall, reducing its ability to dissipate the heat pumped from the storage box.
Never had an issue storing foods. Trust your nose and you’ll be fine. For fridges and freezers pack every possible space with ziplocks full of water.
Thoroughly defrost the unit and the take the vacuum and with the point attachment suck all the dust and lint off the areas where the fan exhausts cooling air from the coils on the exterior. That should get you some improvement in performance. Also, keeping it a couple inches off the floor and away from walls might help, as will having it in the coolest, shaded area of the house.
Couple weeks of that and the cats and dogs are gonna start looking like more than beloved family members bro... ;-)
I was told to keep bottles of water in my propane refrigerator, and to try and leave no empty space. The water holds the cold.
Also a lot of motor home owners put a little fan in the refrigerator to make it more efficient.
Only the last category does not lend very well to the traditional methods of drying meats. Western Texas is just fine. Having come from South Africa, I pretty regularly dry meat to make Biltong. Jerky is a pathetic joke next to Biltong. 10 to 20 lb of eye of round sliced into 1/2 inch thick strips with the grain, a lb of brown sugar, 5 cups of scorched rough ground coriander, a cup and a half of coarse non-iodized salt, and a half liter of vinegar as the ingredients... and two box fans some bungee cords and 5 or 6 cheap 20x20 furnace filters I guarantee there is not a habitable place in the US I could not make Biltong.
I wished the heck I’d known the mineral oil trick. Aldi had large eggs on sale for .69 cents per dozen.
(disclaimer - I’ve eaten eggs 30+ days beyond the printed expiration - they tasted fine!)
I was going to say that people used to store meat packed in butter or lard. Placed in a deep container and covered in lard or butter, meat will last indefinitely in an anaerobic environment. It’s not a common storage method today, but was used for centuries before refrigeration. The top layer of fat may go rancid, but the rest will be fine.
This won’t work in very hot environments as the fat has to solidify, and you don’t want meat floating in the grease.
Yeah my parents were depression era as well and they would dig a “cellar”, about 6-12ft deep and as you say nest the root crops, potato, squash, carrots, onions, parsnips, beets etc in a dry straw bed of shelves or bushel basket layers.. Keep it cool and dry on the surface after late summer or fall harvest and it would last thru next season. This was in the Texas Panhandle region. We still do such to this day as it doubles as our storm shelter...:o)
I like the furrow idea as well...... might give that a try this year.
They work off DC 12 volts as well. You could probably run them off a solar panel as well.
Converting propane appliances to natural gas require a different orifice. Some new propane fridges can come with those. All you need for those refrigerators is a source of heat. If you are diligent, check ebay and craigslist frequently for gas absorption fridges, you might find a new or used on for much cheaper.
Lots of good info in this thread. Will try some of them.
Make sure the coil on the back of your refrig is clean and getting plenty of air circulation. After temp inside stabilizes.
Feel the coil. Will be hot at the top, slide your hand down the coil. Will get cooler. Bottom pass should be about room temp.
If so it has the correct refrigerant charge.
Hot to the bottom, leak.
Chest freezer was an excellent suggestion. Like ....
http://www.sears.com/kenmore-3.5-chest-freezer-white/p-04612402000P?prdNo=10&blockNo=10&blockType=G10
or for another $20 a 5 cu ft.
I’ve heard about the wrapping stuff in a wet cloth before.
It makes sense. Evaporation is a cooling process.
Eggs do NOT need to be refrigerated as we are told, especially if they are fresh.
I make Ukrainian Easter Eggs and we’ve them out sitting on the table for up to three weeks without them going bad.
But really, a chicken sits on them for 21 days with a temperature of about 99-100 degrees and they don’t rot. If they did the chicks would be killed.
And that was store bought eggs that were already God knows how old by the time we got them.
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