Posted on 05/07/2016 7:34:23 PM PDT by PinkChampagneonIce
Dear Freeper Preppers:
I have tried to find answers to these questions, and just haven't had much luck. Freepers are always incredibly knowledgeable, so I thought I would throw this out for general comment.
I live somewhat off the grid, in that I live with a bare minimum of electrical appliances. I have a small, motel-sized refrigerator. Its temperature varies. It is so small, that the thermometer will indicate a 5 degree reduction in temperature if I just open the door. During the winter, it is fairly easy to keep it below 40. During the summer, that becomes a challenge. There are many days when the temperature is high that it remains at 45 or so.
The conventional wisdom is that if the temperature rises about 40 the bacteria, germs, microbes, whatever, start growing in food and make it unsafe to eat. As anyone who has lived as I do knows, that is simply not true. For example, sometimes I will buy a pre-cooked rotisserie chicken at the market. It is hot when I buy it, and warm when I put it in the refrigerator. Even if the refrigerator thermometer is showing 45 degrees, the chicken doesn’t automatically “spoil.” If it is in a sealed container/packaging, it is good for at least three days, even though it is chicken, which is considered notoriously likely to spoil. After the three days, I can still use it if I put in in a soup or stew which is boiled for more than 10-15 minutes. I can also refrigerate leftovers for at least 2-3 days without any harmful effects. So just because something is stored below 40 degrees does not necessarily mean that it has spoiled or is dangerous.
Before refrigeration, people used ice boxes. They were insulated, and cooled with blocks of ice. Having done this when I was young on camping trips, I sincerely doubt they maintained a temperature below 40 degrees. Although some people suffered from “summer sickness” from spoiled food, people weren’t dropping like flies. Obviously, some foods are more likely to spoil in a way that causes sickness than others, although this is completely obscured by the modern warnings that anything cooled about 40 degrees is unsafe. I know that in Great Britain, people do not refrigerate items which we are told MUST be refrigerated – for example, jams, mayonnaise, etc. My understanding is that in medieval times spices were prized because they made “tainted” meat palatable.
And so, to my question. For those who have lived off the grid, or in less developed countries, do you have any other guidelines than those which say everything must be cooled below 40 degrees? In your experience, which foods spoil the fastest, and in the most dangerous fashion? Which spoil but are just nasty, not life threatening? In an emergency situation, which foods should be absolutely avoided after a certain time at a certain temperature, and which can be worked with by boiling for 10-15 minutes or charring over an open fire. When is “tainted” meat OK to eat, and when will it kill you?
I’m posting this fairly late in the evening. I’m going to bed, so I won’t be replying to this thread until tomorrow or Monday. I really appreciate your input on this topic.
I don’t have an answer to your question specifically, but food will keep longer if you keep it under water, while in water proof containers.
Almost no cold is lost when you open the lid. The chest configuration is far superior to the cabinet configuration in terms of efficiency and keeping the temperature constant.
Anyway, he said that he kept food cool in his cell by wrapping it in wet cloth. That doesn't specifically answer your question, and I don't even know how true it is. But I'm throwing it out there to see if anyone knows anything about this.
Kudos to your frugality!
You have the most concern with uncooked meats, in my understanding.
Get a small chest freezer, put a Refrigerator or Freezer Thermostat (Temperature Controller) on it. When you open it the cool remains inside. Uses less energy, door types let all the cool air out.
after 24 hours figure the inside is probably the same as if it were stored at room temperature. Here in the Philippines we run 3 to 4 hours a day on our generator to keep it cold. But not freezing. For longer term survival, you just learn to cook around what you have. In the US I would advise cans not a fridge. Here in the rural Philippines IT means few veggies and lots of rice and dried fish.
I have no experience with ice boxes...but you keep different foods in different places...even older refrigerators keep meat and cheese right under the ice.
for off grid refrigeration, try a kerosene run refrigerator.
You can store stews for a few days at room temperature if you reboil it daily and keep it air tight. My Filipino husband kept his stews for 5 days like this in a heavy dutch oven with a heavy lid. I refused to eat it after day 3 but he never got sick.
Haven’t quite gone to bed yet! This is interesting to me, as I have read old cookbooks that indicate that meat should/could be hanged for days or weeks before use! That some meat was considered a delicacy when it had actually rotted a little?!!!! Did people just have stronger intestines then, or maybe they just lived shorter lives!....
Well, eggs can be dipped in water glass (aquas sodium silicate) and left un-refrigerated for months on end. Same with hard boiled eggs.
Prepper ping
Nothing will kill you if you boil it in water for 1 hour.
Thanks for your reply. Pease porridge hot, pease porridge cold, pease porridge in the pot, NINE DAYS OLD! Guess they did that in London, too!
I have also heard about people who were in remote areas who used their pressure cooker as storage....cooked the stew, then put it under pressure until the next day. Sounds like a good idea.
It’s good to know that would survive being boiled in water, as long as I am in there for less than an hour.
Buy a cooler and get some ice.
Uncooked eggs actually last longer.
Rub mineral oil on eggs and that will act as a preserver.
Here’s how to make a zeer refrigerator that is a small pot inside a large pot with sand in between = http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Pot-in-a-Pot-Refrigerator
I can’t find the link but there is a refrigerator made from basically a box with a cloth or burlap draped over. Make sure it stays damp and that cools the food. From Australia, iirc.
I would be concerned with that seaping through the shell into the egg. I’ve heard of using mineral oil, but same deal. I wonder how something like just olive oil would work.
I assume most preppers know that eggs do not need to be refridgerated, though they last longer that way. You can tell if an egg has gone bad if it floats in water.
Thanks, everyone, for your input. I’m going to bed now, but will check back tomorrow. Have a good night.
Find yourself an RV refrigerator. A 6-8 cubic foot fridge has a freezer on top and a large regular refrigerator on the bottom. There are also much smaller RV refrigerators. They are designed to run on propane. All that is required is a flame that is much, much smaller than the flame on a Bic lighter. You can even run them off a barbeque size propane tank for many, many months.
Forget the apartment size unit. If TSHTF, there will be little electricity but plenty of barbeque grill gas tanks to be scrounged up. Or, store a few filled ones. You’ll be surprised how long a small propane tank will last. And, you can trickle charge the Marine battery from a solar trickle charger. Start with a new battery.
You will need a marine battery to hook up to it to ignite the flame as the thermostat requires
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