Posted on 10/03/2014 11:04:09 PM PDT by zimfam007
What is the difference b/w an airborne pathogen and everything else?
Don't forget we're also heading into Flu season - will be many bugs that do cause coughing/sneezing and they aren't exclusive to folks who have not contracted Ebola...
And yet it spreads....
You are exactly right. Airborne most often means suspended in the atmosphere, but aerosolized viruses (i.e., sneezing) are also airborne for a short while.
Which is irrelevant to the average lay person who catches the disease because of being sneezed of coughed on.
Best to warn people to avoid being near a person who is spewing anything in any form.
And likely you could add to that list: money, gas pump handles, door handles, ATM machines, money, checkout credit card machines, keyboards, touch screens, money, produce and goods on supermarket and store shelves, money, countertops, windows, light switches, all surfaces of bathrooms stalls, ANYTHING that people in a public place are likely to put their hands.
I saw a woman dressed in third world ethnic dress with a head covering, hold her store card in her MOUTH as she unloaded her cart while her useless male counterpart watched her do all the heavy work.
If you want to really get grossed out, just understand that all odor is particulate. Then, think about every surface in a public restroom. I’ve used a paper towel to open the door and leave ever since I was told that.
Post to me or FReep mail to be on/off the Bring Out Your Dead ping list.
The purpose of the “Bring Out Your Dead” ping list (formerly the “Ebola” ping list) is very early warning of emerging pandemics, as such it has a high false positive rate.
So far the false positive rate is 100%.
At some point we may well have a high mortality pandemic, and likely as not the “Bring Out Your Dead” threads will miss the beginning entirely.
*sigh* Such is life, and death...
Earlier this week the CDC head got backed into a corner while talking about Ebola transmission.
He stated that if you got within three feet of a person displaying Ebola symptoms you became a person of medical interest whose activities had to be closely monitored. I think this interview was on FOX.
Sorry, but if prolonged standing, and not touching, within three feet of a person makes you a medical person of interest don’t lie to me and say it is not transmitted through the air. We are talking about a technical definitions - nice things in clinical and academic environments but very bad in the “real world” the rest of us live in.
Have you ever ridden in a car with the windows rolled up with two or three other people? That's water vapor...expelled moisture...coming from the lungs of people. With an ebola victim, that moisture is full of ebola virus. I would not want to share air for very long, if at all, without some kind of barrier between my lungs and the expelled body fluids coming from their lungs.
I wouldn’t want to either, but it is puzzling that after 8 or 9 months the numbers are so low, and taxis are still used to transport them.
How do dozens of outbreaks over 40 years die out, why aren’t millions already dead?
I watched an episode of Frontline from August (I think) about the ebola situation in one of the west african countries (forget which). To transport they had vehicles that had been closed up in the back...presumably to give the drivers some measure of protection.
How do dozens of outbreaks over 40 years die out, why aren’t millions already dead?
Because the outbreaks occurred in remote villages separated by distance and culture. Easily contained and controlled because the village is essentially decimated and those who get it can't travel long distances easily.
This is why it's a problem now. It's loose in urban environments where people CAN travel easily and quickly...via planes, trains and automobiles. Millions will die.
Your cliche about it being totally small towns doesn’t really wash for the 40 years of outbreaks , and why aren’t millions dead now, infact, why haven’t millions died in the past?
There haven't been continuous outbreaks for 40 years. There have been maybe 10 to 15 outbreaks (if that) due specifically to people eating or coming into contact with animals that have the disease. After that it spread from person to person. Not a lot of people eat chimpanzees which was suspected for a couple of outbreaks. Others have to with bats.
And again it struck in times and places where travel was limited. Not like now.
But let me ask you a question. Why do you think it will NOT kill millions at least in Africa? What is going to stop it? There is no cure. It's not contained. The healthcare systems have collapsed. The economies are near collapse and people are still traveling. What will stop it from killing millions?
Layman translation?
Being borne by the air, or wind, means that the air is moving it along. The distance depends on wind velocity so it could be yards, or miles.
Aerosols, exactly like it reads, are like a plant spray bottle. liquid travel is aerosolized, (made small by air) but it only travels for the distance it mass will carry it and the force at which it was ejected.
There is another type that travels and that is ejection as in the spittle that hits you in the face when someone is talking.
You can debate this stuff endlessly if you like. The debate won’t change the reality. You still have to come into contact with bodily fluids of a infected and virus shedding person.
We already know that most of the contact is from contaminated surfaces, and direct contact with the body, but nobody knows how many are infected by a aerosol spray droplet that lands in your eye, mouth or nose.
To prevent that, we wear protection and so does the infected in a hospital environment.
If a virus shedding person is out and about, they will obviously be sick. You can avoid them, but you cannot avoid the surfaces the sick may leave fluids on..
So that’s the concern...not the airborne/aerosol arguments.
I think the misunderstanding, BTW, is intentional hyperbole anyway. For the last six years, few people, other than Obama sycophants, trust anything the government says from any of the multitude of agencies.,
So it is what it is....
“What will stop it from killing millions? “
Not much but some geographical features and a lack of efficient transport to slow it down.
The thing is, I doubt all the dead will have died from the disease. Most will starve to death or die of violence and/or neglect.
If it get that far, I doubt any efforts we or anyone else makes will put a dent in it. After that, it’s all over for us as well because refugees will be running like rats from a sinking ship. You can’t even begin to control that. It would be like the Mariel Cuban Boat lift on steroids. The US system would also collapse.
You have to stop it at the source....NOW...before it gets to that point..
How easily is it transmitted in sweat? Many times at the public gym people leave equipment and benches wet with their perspiration without cleaning up after themselves and along comes another to use it. If you used a towel for a barrier to that stranger's sweat and they carried the virus, wouldn't that moist towel now carry the pathogen to the person and then go home to launder exposing everyone along the way?
There have been dozens, up to 34 outbreaks since 1976, a half dozen where the infected reach into the multiple hundreds, and more that exceeded a 100, and many more that were in the dozens.
In Africa, under African conditions. Thousands dead, but not many thousands.
How many millions do you expect it to kill in America?
It's exponential. 2 becomes 4 becomes 8 becomes 16 becomes 32 becomes 64...etc. etc. But you never really answered my question: Why do you think it will NOT kill millions at least in Africa? What is going to stop it? There is no cure. It's not contained. The healthcare systems have collapsed. The economies are near collapse and people are still traveling. What will stop it from killing millions?
How many millions do you expect it to kill in America?
That depends on two things. One is our culture. We take care of sick loved ones. We hold them, we comfort them, we kiss them, we hug them. That's not going to stop. Our culture is also to bring really sick people to hospitals. That will overwhelm our health care systems just as fast. Doctors and nurses will die first just as they did in Africa. Our culture is not going to change overnight so I don't see that we have any advantage here over Africa.
The only other thing that could possibly stop it is if it evolves to where it's not deadly. That's the only thing that stopped the Spanish flu. If that had not happened there would likely have been many more millions, if not billions, killed.
“How easily is it transmitted in sweat”
That is a transmission factor that is more related to the end stage of the disease.
As you know, (or maybe you don’t) the virus overwhelms the immune system. It is then that the infectee begins to shed through excretions. The reason is that the virus breaks down the blood vessel walls, leaking into other areas of the body, and the skin gets hematomas, causing blood to mix with the sweat.
It is then that the sweat carries the virus..to the best of my knowledge..
Many of them were secondary outbreaks due to needle accidents, lab accident, secondary infections and animal only outbreaks.
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