Tests of Fabled Archimedes Death Ray Fail

ap on Yahoo ^ | 10/22/05 | RON HARRIS

[NormsRevenge]

SAN FRANCISCO - It wasn't exactly the ancient siege of Syracuse, but rather a curious quest for scientific validation. According to sparse historical writings, the Greek mathematician Archimedes torched a fleet of invading Roman ships by reflecting the sun's powerful rays with a mirrored device made of glass or bronze.

More than 2,000 years later, researchers from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the University of Arizona set out to recreate Archimedes' fabled death ray Saturday in an experiment sponsored by the Discovery Channel program "MythBusters." Their attempts to set fire to an 80-year-old fishing boat using their own versions of the device, however, failed to either prove or dispel the myth of the solar death ray.

The MIT team's first attempt with their contraption made of 300 square feet of bronze and glass failed to ignite a fire from 150 feet away. It produced smoldering on the boat's wooden surface but no open flame. A second attempt from about 75 feet away lit only a small fire that burned itself out.

Mike Bushroe of the University of Arizona's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory tried a mirrored system shaped like flower petals, but it failed to produce either smoke or flames.

Peter Rees, executive producer of "MythBusters," said the experiment showed Archimedes' death ray was most likely a myth.

"We're not saying it can't be done," Rees said. "We're just saying it's extremely impractical as a weapon of war."

The experiment showed it may be technically possible, but didn't answer whether Archimedes used it to destroy enemy ships, MIT professor David Wallace said.

"Who can say whether Archimedes did it or not?" he said. "He's one of the great mathematical minds in history. I wouldn't want to underestimate his intelligence or ability."

Historical text describes Archimedes defeating a Roman fleet using the ray.

In "Epitome ton Istorion," John Zonaras wrote: "At last in an incredible manner he burned up the whole Roman fleet. For by tilting a kind of mirror toward the sun he concentrated the sun's beam upon it; and owing to the thickness and smoothness of the mirror he ignited the air from this beam and kindled a great flame, the whole of which he directed upon the ships that lay at anchor in the path of the fire, until he consumed them all."

"MythBusters" also tried to recreate the ray last year, and after failing, declared the story a myth.

"If this weapon had worked, it would have been the equivalent of a nuclear weapon in the ancient world," Rees said.

___

On the Net:

MIT Department of Mechanical Engineering: http://www-me.mit.edu/

UA Lunar and Planetary Lab: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/

Discovery Channel: http://dsc.discovery.com/

[NormsRevenge]

Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor David Wallace, performing an experiment for the Discovery Channels 'Mythbusters,' uses hundreds of mirrored panels to focus sunlight onto a boat in the hope of creating a fire Saturday, Oct. 22, 2005, in San Francisco. According to sparse historical writings, the Greek mathematician Archimedes torched a fleet of invading Roman ships by reflecting the sun's powerful rays with a mirrored device made of glass or bronze. More than 2,000 years later, researchers from MIT and the University of Arizona set out to recreate Archimedes' fabled death ray. Their attempts to set fire to an 80-year-old fishing boat using their own versions of the device, however, failed to either prove or dispel the myth of the solar death ray. (AP Photo/Noah Berger)

[NormsRevenge]

Their attempts to set fire to an 80-year-old fishing boat using their own versions of the device, however, failed to either prove or dispel the myth of the solar death ray.

---

Film of a bunch of animals and crew members sun bathing and snoozing on the 80-year-old fishing boat during the experiment at 11.

[CzarNicky]

Mythbusters did it first.

[Southack]

The Roman ships in question had one sail and lots of men rowing. Torching an old sail is easier than torching wood.

Model Length: 24-1/2" (623mm) Scale: 1/30
provided by Hobby World of Montreal

A typical Roman war ship of the first Century B.C. this Bireme was driven by two rows of oars. Out riggers stabilized the ship and the whales protected the hull from the protruding bows of enemy ships. While fast under oar, this type of vessel capsized easily under too much sail. This ship was built with plank on bulkhead construction. 

[NormsRevenge]

They do some pretty interesting experiments on Mythbusters.

[blam]

"They do some pretty interesting experiments on Mythbusters."

I agreee but, their goofiness turns me off.

[NormsRevenge]

..their goofiness turns me off

I agree.

[pcottraux]

Mythbusters did do it first...these guys didn't need to waste their time.

[TheCrusader]

"John Zonaras wrote: "At last in an incredible manner he burned up the whole Roman fleet----by tilting a kind of mirror toward the sun he concentrated the sun's beam upon it..."

I used to watch kids doing this to ants with a magnifying glass. I don't think they were mathmeticians though.

[Cowboy Bob]

I used to watch kids doing this to ants with a magnifying glass.

I thought ALL boys did this.

[usmcobra]

I noticed that they always use flat mirors,Archimedes probibly used many small ones that were curved slightly and able to be aimed with a simple sight by a grunt.

[thomaswest]

"The Roman ships in question had one sail and lots of men rowing. Torching an old sail is easier than torching wood."

It ain't necessarily so. A plane, porous surface like a sail allows much of the "heat ray" to pass through and also to dissipate heat away from the dark side via rapid air transport. If you can't get smouldering temperatures on a wood plank, you are unlikely to succeed on a sail.

A similar issue of observation comes up for Noah's flood adherents. Plants do not survive 40 days under water. A simple experiment in a bathtub shows the story has to be false.

[Southack]

No. You need to have some sailing experience to truly understand this one, but cloth out on the open sea becomes dry...drier than kindling...and frays easily.

Roman sails were prime targets for a sun ray. Better materials were only used later in Time.

[Dutch Boy]

All of the mirrors look flat. The mirrors or mounted on a frame that looks concave. That will never focus enough energy in a single spot. The mirror(s) need to be concave. The design needs to be run on simulation until the correct prescription is obtained. A computer model could be created that would account for focal points for each sq mm of the surface of the reflector. If every reflective surface isn't focused at exactly the same spot, there will be a loss of energy. Too much loss and no fire.

[TheCrusader]

"I thought ALL boys did this"

OK you got me, I was one of those boys. LOL

[camle]

well you know, now that these guys did thier thing, the case is solved.

conclusive evidence, ya know

[Rakkasan1]

the orgination of the 1st ZOT ?

[LibWhacker]

...he ignited the air from this beam and kindled a great flame, the whole of which he directed upon the ships that lay at anchor in the path of THE FIRE...

So he didn't just ignite the ship, but "the air," along a path from his device to the ship, in a sense the world's first flamethrower. So any modern attempt to reproduce this with magnifying glasses alone doesn't disprove it, imo. You've got to try to figure out how Archimedes ignited "the air" in front of the ship(s).

[SunkenCiv]

I remember a similar test of this tale, I think in Syracuse itself, anyway, in the 1970s. It also failed miserably. Sounds to me like Archimedes screwed up. [rimshot!]

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