Posted on 12/29/2011 1:01:09 PM PST by daletoons
Atheist militant Richard Dawkins has produced a children's book entitled "The Magic of Reality" and in doing so has joined the Millstone Swim and Dive Club. Spreading his venom for God to kids under the guise of Scientism is about as putrid as it gets. Children using simple God-given logic conclude the existence of a creator. It requires an abandonment of logic to attain self omniscience and declare there is no God. The materialist's faith in the escape hatch of "there just wasn't enough evidence for me" won't wash on judgement day. Here's a book idea: The ghost of Christopher Hitchens, Jacob Marley style, appears to Richard Dawkins and sets him straight. Dickey would probably make a hash of it, too bad Hitchens isn't still around to write it.
I love the book WHO BROKE THE BABY. The author was struggling with how to convince people abortion was murder, when her toddler came in, saw the photo of a dismembered fetus, and immediately asked “Who broke the baby?”
The chld saw the simple truth so many adults cannot.
And throw in alternation of generations, where plants generations alternate between beng haploid and diploid. That further complifies the simplicated.
I know a woman who grew up in a wheelchair, and did exactly what you described. In a church service, she got up and was instantly healed.
She plays softball, runs marathons and has several children. But whenever her mother visits, she tries to convince my friend to get back in her wheelchair before she does permanent damage. She’s been out of that monstrosity for 25 years, but her mother still won’t believe.
22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’
27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
Is that like the scorpions born from the rice in the bag?
The whole of the entire universe is a “closed system”, it only changes should outside forces act on it....
AND
Where there is smoke, there must be a fire somewhere.....
AND...
Why the illogical jump of some “early version of man” assigning to some godlike entity the power of fire, lightning and thunder....why had he “evolved” to think like that....? It’s a more sophisticated process to jump from non rational, momemt to moment existence to mourning the dead, setting up monuments to fallen hero’s and risen saviours,sacrificing animals,children and even one’s self to gods or even to God “most high”, to having a sense of eternity beyond our own selves, and dealing with “inborn guilt” over past mistakes even if “charlatans” may from time to time create the “laws” of transgressions for which folks should feel “guilt” over...? After all, aren’t we the “supra mensches” we have been waiting for?
AND .....
Have you read of the doctor who can create feelings and sensations of the divine just by placing a highly focalized magnet over an area of the right temple...everyone tested seems to have this same spot...what a weird thing to have “evolved” in man....hmmmm?
AND......
“For God has placed eternity into the forehead of man” Ecclesiastes
and....
numinal temporal spatial interface?
and....
we’ve all been tagged, weighed in the balance, found to have a God shaped vacuum and are found wanting...yet Christ, God in Flesh has the cure for us!
(or I’ve just written a series of non sequitors that mean nothing, or are “non rational” depending on the kinds of flexible “standards’ one adheres to, or perhaps point to a seriously deranged mind....but a God in Flesh who rose from dead...? How could such an idea have arisen in the mighty closed system Universe?)
I'd rather cut out the middle man, since he doesn't really answer any questions.
“But those who like to go around telling others that they are going to Hell unless they believe in Jesus, Mohammed, or that Mormon guy, well, that’s irritating. It’s also a mild mental illness, far as I can tell.”
So why should this be “irritating” to you? Is there a higher truth that you are aware of, that should we all subordinate ourselves to this truth, then there would be no more trouble in the world? How is life on your uncrowded pumpkin...is Samuel Clemens your companion there?
Are you more iritated with the one who tells you that you might be going to hell, if he or she comes across as being totally concerned for your well being or are you cross with the one who seems to have a kind of “smugness” about them? Then again, can you even tell the difference between their smugness or your own? Projection can be a mental aberration too!
As I’m having trouble finding even a smattering in the three provided posts - and especially in the excerpt - that resembles science, I’m quite tempted not to comment upon it at all, as it has rather little relevance.
Still, that would be somewhat impolite, so allow me to simply point out that the author misunderstands and misrepresents evolution, tries to draw a line between “evolution” and “Darwinian natural selection”, when no such distinction exists, and does a great deal of entirely useless wordplay on the basis of nothing but their own opinion, often related to value or purpose.
I’m really not sure if there’s anything I should specifically respond to, aside from pointing at the rather silly suggestion about the word “evolution” listed above - shall I highlight the arguments from incredulity like this one?
>And just what kind of “pressure” could force an ape to suddenly become Buddha, or Beethoven, or Shakespeare, anyway?
If you want I can go through it piece by piece and dissect it for specific fallacies, but I must ask that you don’t make me; it’s silly enough just at the first reading.
Actually, that’s my point: I’m talking not merely about the difficulty of proving a negative, but of falsifiability. Also, you appear to be largely ignoring my point, but I’ll let that go.
If you say that the story was given, I ask: on what grounds? You’ve provided nothing to support it. You’ve provided no way to falsify the idea. And, in the words of Christopher Hitchens, “that which is asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence”; upon those grounds I dismiss your point as irresolvable.
Evolution, on the other hand, has a massive amount of scientific support, to the point that it is scientific fact. Based upon its evidence, I accept it as sound.
Also, I really don’t know how this relates to K-12 education, and I suspect it’s merely a red herring.
That and the man in my Sunday School, who we prayed for who was in the hospital whose abdominal wound just would not close and heal....I can only describe a sensation of “power” that went out from that room.
The man involved reported at that same hour his abdomen (in 1996)began literally bulging and a nasty purilence burst open. He was cleaned up and rebandaged...in a day the wound had closed and he was out of the hospital a few days later. Last I heard, 7 years later, there were no further issues with his Crohns disease(which necessitated the surgery) or the surgical wound.
What I also remember was that 2 days after the prayer, the person involved felt very strong urgings to call certain of those who had prayed for him even though he had not known who was there or that we had even prayed for him at that time. This person and I were not even friends(we weren’t enemies, we were just not social acquaintances) so it was unusual that he would even want to talk to me. He had called me right at work, getting my number from my wife and told me of the day his wound suddenly “exploded” then started healing within the hour. Now he knew that I was an RN so perhaps he just wanted my perspective...yet I told him we had prayed for him and that it seemed miraculous regarding his symptoms, so we just praised the Lord over the whole business.
I’ve seen many abdominal surgeries including Crohns related, but I’d never before seen or heard of postoperative Crohns patients’ abdomens becoming Jiffy Pop swollen within a matter of two or three minutes,then bursting out volcanically with black purilence through the opening(the wound was not fully dehisced, just not fully closing,as it was decided that the wound should heal by third surgical intention), then rapidly healed in a day or two; then, over 7 years, never having had trouble with Crohns disease again. (Yes the scar was still there...why not after all?)
Yes even in this “day of small things”, God will still do miracles...I think he does them more frequently than we realize!
Neither can atheists or scientists tell us *How*.
Nor, more importantly *Why*.
Goddidit may seem like a simplistic answer to many of the questions people ask but atheists and scientists have NOTHING better to offer.
>> “The fact that evolutionary ‘arguments’ are firmly based in logical fallacy shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the naturalistic philosophy that underlies belief in ‘evolution’ “. <<
.
You have to admit that evolution is the most theologically resilient, and diverse religion on Earth.
No rules - no worries.
“I’d rather cut out the middle man, since he doesn’t really answer any questions”
Answer your questions, or be held accountable to your complaints?
If you really want anwers, then for a start I would suggest a book by CS Lewis called “Til we have Faces”...a marvelous retelling of the Cupid vs Psyche story and of the bitterly jealous sister with the scar on her face...who discovers that “she is Psyche, too”
You, I suspect are Psyche too and God would be your Adonis and would love to give you a new heart, spirit, and mind...a new face as it were! You think you are fully human now...LADY, none of us really knows human, yet God will make his children more fully human then we could have ever possibly imagined..as we were meant to be from the beginning! Indeed God wants to make you A PERFECT LADY, I think that is your true heart cry...that is why you subconsciously and spiritually chose this moniquer for your self!
“Actually, that’s my point: I’m talking not merely about the difficulty of proving a negative, but of falsifiability. Also, you appear to be largely ignoring my point, but I’ll let that go.
If you say that the story was given, I ask: on what grounds? You’ve provided nothing to support it. You’ve provided no way to falsify the idea. And, in the words of Christopher Hitchens, “that which is asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence”; upon those grounds I dismiss your point as irresolvable.”
You and Hitchens make/made the pre biased mistake that a lot of “scientists and science wannabe’s” make; that is to create thesis/antithesis conflicts over the notion of the falsifiable idea vs the tautological(can never be proven true or false)idea. It is true that the practise of pure scientific investigation must look at the evidence and form hypothesis based on evidence. Yet, the ethical scientist crosses the line when he makes biased opinions regarding the tautological. Another words when an arguement can’t be proven true or false, then the arguement for said tautology must be assumed false and an adherent of said arguement must be considered “irrational” and therfore a “nutter” as the Brits like to use the term and banished from all scientific journals and the halls of elite God scientists...as E. Forest Mims was!
A truly scientific mind will be pure in his/her investigations but he/she must be intellectually honest by not using science to claim that an arguement of a tautological nature that can’t be falsified or verified must be automatically considered false. He may only say that science can not speak as to the tautological as existent or nonexistent. Ony a Pre-Biased scientific mind which has gone off the rails of true scientific inquiry will assign qualities of “good/evil”, “rational/irrational”, superstitious/nonsuperstitious, or I like this one..”Intelligent/stupidly ignorant” to those who hold more numinous tautological views of the nature of the universe.
There will always be epistomological gaps between what are observed from objects and from the objects themselves. What fills the gaps are the stuffs of legends, or there be Dragons, or perhaps the God in Flesh who poured out his life for us...or just “crazy nutter superstitious talk”. The ethical scientist too must account for his own biases when he considers that epistomological gap, if his own work is to have any coherency at all!
I just surfed over to the link.
It's 11:00 by the clock on my computer, local time.
37 comments on that thread, when I started this; I had some cooking and got interrupted, and it's now 12:37 AM.
Implying a participation rate of approximately 0.01% of the population of /r/atheism.
What's even more telling is some of the self-congratulatory comments by the folks over there.
Godssheep 3 points 12 hours ago
The sole (openly) atheist in there is trying damn hard though.
[–]NukeThePope 3 points 11 hours ago
I couldn't bear to watch him struggle.
[–]WorkingMouse 1 point 25 minutes ago
There are two of us now. And I think I just got censored.
So. Mr. workingmouse, I presume?
on the other hand, there are these posts:
[–]kurtwinter 4 points 10 hours ago
Downvoted for linking to a Free Republic article. That goes against all that is good in the universe.
Such commentary does not speak well for your bona fides; nor does such as
[–]BetYouCanNotTellMe 1 point 9 hours ago
No - it needs to serve as an example of what the US will be like if the likes of Bachman or Paul are elected.
Bachman is misspelled; and Paul-supporters are regularly ZOTTED (banned).
Such a level of fatuity (literally, self-satisfied stupidity) -- is not reassuring.
But it is interesting how your take here on this thread is quite different than your take say seven months ago on reddit/christianity.
(source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/h67dn/a_question_of_theology_dealing_with_god_being/c1t7nqo)
If you're up for a real discussion based on those points, later over the weekend, I'm game.
For the nonce...have you ever bothered to to consider the implications of your statement that
I don't believe in evolution; I accept it based upon the evidence that supports it. This is also why I am an undecided agnostic; for me, I see no convincing evidence for a god or the supernatural, so I don't see a reason to base my decisions on the assumption that there is one ?
A lot of atheist are offended at religion, as it seems to be a realm in which their intellect is not only (allegedly) insufficient (as if...); but it is regarded as a non-sequitur. Oh, the indignity of it all!
And so the stock response is to retort that atheism is the sacred refuge of the few who have the courage, the will, and the intellectual stamina and heft to scale the heights, far above the easily satisfied crowd who only wants cheap comfort, yada yada.
They then turn around and complain "a real God wouldn't send anyone to Hell."
So who's the one looking for comfort?
As a celebrated Christian author said, The horror of the Christian universe was that it had no door marked Exit..
That was my chief complaint when I used to be an atheist.
That, and noplace to call my own, with my business my own.
Yuck.
Cheers!
(Yes, I know what it is, I'm trying to find out if *you* know. And can articulate the significance either way, and what the risks are.)
As far as evidence, you were the one who asserted without evidence "what if Satan had a test so only those who rejected heaven got into it" and expected an answer.
The problem is not that there is no evidence: the problem is a much more subtle metaphysical one dealing with the roots of the scientific method.
I have yet to run across an atheist who's thought of it.
Cheers!
“The problem is not that there is no evidence: the problem is a much more subtle metaphysical one dealing with the roots of the scientific method.”
Heh! TEE HEE!
This is a strawman. I have said nothing about the origins of Genesis. Perhaps you have me confused with some other poster. Perhaps this is a strawman question of your creation.
My point is: ( again)
It is amazing that this ancient creation story ( Genesis) is, indeed, as accurate as concisely and beautifully accurate as it is a story that conforms remarkably well with what we know from science today.
My second point is ( again)
You have proven *** twice** now that you are grossly unfamiliar with Genesis and what is written there, yet feel free to criticize it.
Finally....
1) Evolution would not be a hot topic except that we have **forced** attendance and **forced** funding of a system of socialized K-12 schools.
2) Not only should there be complete separation of school and state, but there should be complete separation of science and state. The **only** exception to this would be for military defense and the prevention of the spread of highly infectious diseases.
3) When it comes to being bullies evolutions are the biggest defenders of forced funded socialist schooling and socialized science.
Yes, you do. You have already admitted that evolution would have non-neutral religious, political, and cultural consequences.
Get government out of the education business, better yet, get government out of the science business ,and the **only** people who would be worrying their brains about macro-evolution would be the handful of scientists working in this **narrow** field.
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