CARTOON: The Dawkins Delusion

Out of Order Blog ^ | 12-29-11 | Dale

[daletoons]

Atheist militant Richard Dawkins has produced a children's book entitled "The Magic of Reality" and in doing so has joined the Millstone Swim and Dive Club. Spreading his venom for God to kids under the guise of Scientism is about as putrid as it gets. Children using simple God-given logic conclude the existence of a creator. It requires an abandonment of logic to attain self omniscience and declare there is no God. The materialist's faith in the escape hatch of "there just wasn't enough evidence for me" won't wash on judgement day. Here's a book idea: The ghost of Christopher Hitchens, Jacob Marley style, appears to Richard Dawkins and sets him straight. Dickey would probably make a hash of it, too bad Hitchens isn't still around to write it.

[A_perfect_lady]

Because the minute you accept this Big Invisible Forever Creature, your attention is diverted from real life. It leads to the next question: Why? What does it want? Now you are on the path to Conjecture Land, and you might as well become obsessed with Harry Potter for all the good it will do you. Your mind has found a fun and mystical escape. Like people who start playing with Sims or get into World of Warcraft. You aren't living in this world anymore.

That in and of itself isn't my problem. Most people are deep in a Matrix of their own building. If they can step into reality long enough to do their job and pay attention while they're driving, it doesn't much matter. But those who like to go around telling others that they are going to Hell unless they believe in Jesus, Mohammed, or that Mormon guy, well, that's irritating. It's also a mild mental illness, far as I can tell.

[A_perfect_lady]

You’d be amazed at how common miracles are. Why, the traveling salvation shows of the 1930s could heal people right there in the tent! They’d just rise up out of their wheelchairs and walk! Really! There were witnesses!

[wintertime]

You’d be amazed at how common miracles are. Why, the traveling salvation shows of the 1930s could heal people right there in the tent! They’d just rise up out of their wheelchairs and walk! Really! There were witnesses!
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I bet none of this bleeds into your classroom. Government teachers are professional. That's what I've been told.

[editor-surveyor]

Wow, that’s quite an imagination you’ve got there!

Not much substance, but you do have faith.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Well...Socialized schooling is a corrupt system. It was merely the professionalism and values of the teachers still living and breathing American value that was giving CPR to a still born idea.” <<

.
Absolutely.

No such luck now. The quality people just do not go near teaching anymore.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “All endorsed by the few, the proud, the nobly sacrificing, the Prometheans. (Send liver.)” <<

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L O L !

[mas cerveza por favor]

You’d be amazed at how common miracles are. Why, the traveling salvation shows of the 1930s could heal people right there in the tent! They’d just rise up out of their wheelchairs and walk! Really! There were witnesses!

Your comparison fails. Evidence for any reported Catholic miracle must be thoroughly investigated by a panel of scientists, theologians, and medical doctors before it is certified by the local bishop as acceptable for Catholic belief. The overwhelming majority of reported miracles are never declared acceptable. Genuine Catholic miracles are uncommon, but they do occur and the empirical results of the scientific investigations are thoroughly documented.

[YHAOS]

“It seems that the biggest defenders of evolution are also the biggest defenders our nation's atheistic, compulsory-attendance, compulsory-funded, socialist K-12 school system.”

A good reason for the separation of School and State.

. . . if it weren't about indoctrinating the next generation of voters in our nation's socialist K-12 schools . . .

Jawohl. When I wrote “ . . . here we go.” I neglected to add, “ . . . again.”

[Mind-numbed Robot]

Wow, whiskers, that was great! And, Lady, your modesty shows by your name selection.

For my part, I wonder why we wonder and am in wander with the obvious answer. Surely consciousness and intellectual curiosity did not mutate from non-consciousness and non-curiosity. What about love and beauty and poetry and music and ... well, all of the abstracts. What say Darwin and Dawkins about those?

Trust me, Lady, more comes from a Christian belief than from Harry Potter. Unfortunately, for many, you have to believe it before you can feel it but once you feel it you know it is real. Things just star happening differently in your life.

[drtom]

LOL.

Don't get a hernia from desperately trying to have the last word without admitting that you're out of your league when it comes to biology.

[drtom]

Great question!

Of course, an insufficient albeit factually correct answer would be that evolution is still on-going.

More to the point, however, it depends on the complexity of the lifeform.

If you were a simple organism (like a simple bacterium) your high reproductive rate allows for sufficient mutation to survive. A more complicated reproductive system is not required. Arguably, bacterial conjugation which, as a mechanism for the exchange of genetic material, is regarded as the equivalent to sexual reproduction at a single cell level, can increase the speed of mutational adaptation. But the need for increased adaptation only became urgent during modern times with its biological/chemical advancements. In simplified layman's terms - nature didn't throw a new antibiotic on the market every week. B/Conj was discovered after WWII, but we don't know if it existed in earlier times or if it is a recent evolutionary step.

The more complex the organism gets the more beneficial DNA transfer becomes, but it comes with a price: it requires a complex reproductive system and it requires a mate.

Simple invertebrates include an intermediary evolutionary step in the form of hermaphrodism: The search for a mate is facilitated by the fact that you can do it with any other representative of your species, not only 50%.

Once you get into really complex organisms you need to optimize the quality of the genetic exchange and have to forgo hermaphrodism. This is dangerous as you reduce your chances by 50%, but nature concentrates on the species and not the individual.

In case you are interested, here is an intriguing article in non-scientific literature, somewhat related to the subject: it shows how sexual reproduction seems to be superior in slow (compared to single cell system) reproductive systems. Sexual vs. asexual reproduction

Hope I answered your question. Cheers!

[xzins]

Because the minute you accept this Big Invisible Forever Creature, your attention is diverted from real life. It leads to the next question: Why? What does it want? Now you are on the path to Conjecture Land,

Every life other than our own is conjecture land, APLady.

We use conjecture, assumption, and opinion every day of our lives. The issue is what backs it up. I have facts that back up my assumptions (beliefs) about God that are sufficient for me to say the scale has been tipped in this or that direction.

I suspect you operate the same way, and have just not had your scales tipped in the same direction.

Why do I value the facts I use more than you do those same facts?

I think it's because the Unseen Hand has guided me in that direction, but has not done so (yet?) with you.

[Diamond]

A simple “we don’t know yet” is enough for rational people. Who on earth comes up with SOME BIG INVISIBLE MAGIC CREATURE DID IT! LET’S FIGURE OUT WHAT IT WANTS! I mean, seriously?

Reasonable people? While you yourself cannot account for rationality itself because your world view precludes the existence of abstract, universal invariants upon which reason depends?

Yes, seriously. The laws of logic are not material in nature - they do not extend into space. As universal, they are not experienced to be true. As invariant, they don't fit into what materialists like you tell us about the constantly changing nature of the universe. Since an atheist universe cannot account for the laws of logic in the first place, you have no rational basis for your prescriptive claims about abstract, universal, invariant laws or standards of thought upon which reason depends.

Since God is the necessary precondition for all logic, reasoning and morality, you have to hypocritically borrow from our world view to even try to begin to malign and caricature belief in God as being the result of childish superstition.

Get real.

Cordially,

[chrisser]

Hope I answered your question. Cheers!

Yes. Many thanks for taking the time to explain, DrTom.

[chrisser]

Because the minute you accept this Big Invisible Forever Creature, your attention is diverted from real life. It leads to the next question: Why? What does it want? Now you are on the path to Conjecture Land, and you might as well become obsessed with Harry Potter for all the good it will do you. Your mind has found a fun and mystical escape. Like people who start playing with Sims or get into World of Warcraft. You aren't living in this world anymore

You must be surrounded by people with small minds in your life. It is quite common to consider the possibility of God's existence and also to be quite grounded in real life. The only people who seem to have a problem with conceptualizing this, are uber-volcal atheists, at least in my observation.

That in and of itself isn't my problem. Most people are deep in a Matrix of their own building. If they can step into reality long enough to do their job and pay attention while they're driving, it doesn't much matter. But those who like to go around telling others that they are going to Hell unless they believe in Jesus, Mohammed, or that Mormon guy, well, that's irritating. It's also a mild mental illness, far as I can tell.

And yet here you are, on a forum that is unabashedly pro-God (see Jim's founding statement), going out of your way in an attempt to ridicule believers. One could even assert you are proselytizing non-belief. Could that not be equally due to a mild mental illness?

[A_perfect_lady]

I only argue about this on threads where believers are bashing particular athiests... which they do constantly, because they absolutely cannot STAND anyone who simply refuses to buy their nonsense. Threads where believers are arguing with one another about the minutae of their systems are amusing, but I tend to stay off of them.

But as for keeping quiet completely (like liberals want conservatives to do), no, I won't. Silence implies consent, and I do not consent.

[A_perfect_lady]

The laws of logic are not material in nature - they do not extend into space.

That's okay; I don't hang out in deep space. I only need them to operate where there is oxygen.

As universal, they are not experienced to be true.

I have no idea what you mean by that. It's a jazzy-sounding sentence, but what does it mean? (Let me guess: they don't always give you the answer you wanted.)

As invariant, they don't fit into what materialists like you tell us about the constantly changing nature of the universe.

There is no failure of logic, there is only lack of information. Logic is like a mathematical equation: if you have too many variables, you can't come up with a one-answer solution. But again, that's a lack of information, not a flaw in the procedure.

Since an atheist universe cannot account for the laws of logic in the first place, you have no rational basis for your prescriptive claims about abstract, universal, invariant laws or standards of thought upon which reason depends. Since God is the necessary precondition for all logic, reasoning and morality...

Not really. It's a handy justification that allows the believer to refuse to elaborate or explore further, but that's merely drawing a line in the sand. Useful for stopping arguments, rather like a parent saying "Because I said so."

[A_perfect_lady]

Happily, miracles from 2000 or more years ago can’t be investigated at all.