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To: mas cerveza por favor

Happily, miracles from 2000 or more years ago can’t be investigated at all.


59 posted on 12/30/2011 6:23:03 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady; mas cerveza por favor
Happily, miracles from 2000 or more years ago can’t be investigated at all.

How could any miracle at any time ever be "investigated"? By definition, if there should exist, outside the realm of what we call the contingency of materialism, a cause of a change of any sort, it cannot be spotted by examining the events leading up to or away from it. The most one could say is that something inexplicable or unknown happened. If one, like Carl Sagan, has been previously committed to the viewpoint that the contingency of materialism is all there is, was, or ever shall be, one could only say that the inexplicable cause of the event is, in principle, discoverable but that one's present degree of technology for detecting it is insufficient to the task.
61 posted on 12/30/2011 6:44:14 AM PST by aruanan
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To: A_perfect_lady
Happily, miracles from 2000 or more years ago can’t be investigated at all.

Nice to see the post-Christian West hasn't changed since the 1940's (70 years now).

This is an excerpt from a talk on apologetics given by C.S. Lewis, following his visits to R.A.F. aircrew in the 1940s.

See in particular point #2 below, though I include other material for context.

Our great danger at present is lest the church should continue to practice a merely missionary technique in what has become a missionary situation. A century ago our task was to edify those who had been brought up in the faith: our present task is chiefly to convert and instruct the infidels. Great Britain is as much a part of the mission field as China. Now if you were sent to the Bantus you would be taught their language and traditions. You need similar teaching about the language and mental habits of your own uneducated and unbelieving fellow countrymen. Many priests are quite ignorant on this subject. What I know about it I have learned form talking in R.A. F. camps.

They were mostly inhabited by Englishmen and, therefore, some of what I shall say may be irrelevant to the situation in Wales. You will sift out what does not apply.

(1) I find that the uneducated Englishman is an almost total sceptic about history. I had expected he would disbelieve the Gospels because they contain miracles; but he really disbelieves them because they deal with things that happened two thousand years ago. He would disbelieve equally in the battle of Actium if he heard of it. To those who have had our kind of education, his state of mind is very difficult to realize. To us the present has always appeared as one section in a huge continuous process. In his mind the present occupies almost the whole field of vision. Beyond it, isolated from it, and quite unimportant, is something called “the old days”-- a small, comic jungle in which highwaymen, Queen Elizabeth, knights-in-armour, etc. wander about. Then (strangest of all) beyond the old days come a picture of “primitive man.” He is “science,” not “history,” and is therefore felt to be much more real that the old days. In other words, the prehistoric is much more believed in than the historic.

(2) He has a distrust (very rational in the state of his knowledge) of ancient texts. Thus a man has sometimes said to me, “These records were written in the days before printing, weren’t they? And you haven’t got the original bit of paper, have you? So what it comes to is that someone wrote something and someone else copied it and someone else copied that and so on. Well, by the time it comes it us, it won’t be in the least like the original” This is a difficult objection to deal with because one cannot, there and then, start teaching the whole science of textual criticism. But at this point their real religion (i.e. faith in “science”) has come to my aid. The assurance that there is a “science” called “textual criticism” and that its results (not only as regard the New Testament, but as regards ancient texts in general) are generally accepted, will usually be received without objection. (I need hardly point out that the word “text” must not be used, since to your audience it means only “a scriptural quotation. “)

(3) A sense of sin is almost totally lacking. Our situation is thus very different from that of the apostles. The Pagans (and still more the metuentes) to whom they preached were haunted by a sense of guilt and to them the Gospel was, therefore, “good news.” We address people who have been trained to believe that whatever goes wrong in the world is someone else’s fault--the capitalists’, the government’s, the Nazis, the generals’, etc. They approach God Himself as his judges. They want to know, not whether they can be acquitted for sin, but whether He can be acquitted for creating such a world.

In attacking this fatal insensibility it is useless to direct attention (a) To sins your audience do not commit, or (b) To things they do, but do not regard as sins. They are usually not drunkards. They are mostly fornicators, but then they do not feel fornication to be wrong. It is, therefore, useless to dwell on either of these subjects. (Now that contraceptives have removed the obvious uncharitable element in fornication I do not myself think we can expect people to recognize it as sin until they have accepted Christianity as a whole.)

Cheers!

69 posted on 12/30/2011 7:38:02 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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