Free Republic

I agree. “Theres a sucker born every minute” and John Edwards is counting on all of them voting for him.

He’s gotten a free ride from the media.

Thats my take too: A 44 year old “former party girl” has set herself up for life financially. The man has $55 million and he was trying to ease out of the relationship when she got pregnant, at about the same time his wife’s cancer recurs. Theres a logic to it. We’ll find out if this 41 year old Andrew Young has the money to conceivably set her up in a gated community. (And why would Young move her to North Carolina? To be near his wife and kids?)

I disagree that its a HIllary take down. Logically, the story is coming from Rielle Hunter herself, just as the original story came from her (a friend telling tales). How would the National Enquirer have found her unless she told someone who told them? She wants to end Edwards presidential run. Theres nothing for her in him becoming president. She’s popping up again now to make sure to ice him in Iowa. If he became president somehow, she’d have to stay hidden even if his wife passed away. If he goes back to private life with his $55 million and his wife passes away, she’ll have a hold on him through the child and since he controls the money, his other children will have to accept it.

I say this in a good way: Elizabeth Edwards is delusional. Thats probably best for her. She can fix her mind on fighting with Anne Coulter rather than her cancer and the likelihood her children will grow up without her. I don’t even expect this will have an effect on her.

If she didn’t have the presidential campaign to fix her mind on, there would be something else to fix her mind on, of course, because psychologically thats how she would deal with it. There were better choices, IMO, and John Edwards, in my opinion, has always looked bad for continuing with his presidential ambitions. He’s got a commercial that says, “in the quiet of a hospital room, Elizabeth and I decided after 12 hours of tests and very bad news . . . “ What the hell was he doing putting her on the spot for a decision about his presidential campaign in a hospital room after 12 hours of tests and bad news?

The track record of politicians doing stupid things (Gary Hart challenging reporters to follow him around) is a known fact. We’ll see but theres a pretty obvious logic to the story: 44 year old former party girl hooks up with a man with a $55 million personal fortune. What to do? Get pregnant and she’s set for life.

From the first time the story appeared over the summer to now, it has looked like it was coming from the woman because she does not want John Edwards to be president. Its not in her interests.

Some of the pro-national healthcare bloggers get it a little bit, though.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/beta-testing-their-product-by-digby.html

One of the commenters on that thread said that for all the quoting of polls supporting SCHIP (the deceitful phrasing of the story that the issue is about getting rid of the program) “as long as the campaign (here on FR, MichelleMalkin, Rush) got people for a moment to focus on people at the higher end of the SCHIP support spectrum, it might have actually been an overall success.” This is true. I never thought about the SCHIP program before but now it bothers me. The Frosts make chumps of a lot of people who are out there working and being responsible.

One thing I don’t get about the reporting is how come the Frosts aren’t pressed on why they are still uninsured themselves. Having had the experience of high medical costs from an accident, why are they still leaving themselves unprotected? Walmart runs commercials that every one of their associates can get health insurance for something like a dollar a day. Get a job at Walmart. Both of them could get Walmart jobs.

I’m glad Free Republic posters did the leg work on this story that the MSM wasn’t willing to do. This is an important aspect of any public discussion about government health insurance based on income: There are a lot of people who can manipulate the income they show. And the rest of us who cannot manipulate our incomes will have to pay more than our share because we will subsidize people who may well be better off than we are.

Asset tests are very difficult to incorporate. It costs a lot of money to check on people. Hillary Clinton is running around in a bus she calls her “Middle Class Express” - politicians want to pander to middle class people; they don’t want to make them have to show assets and otherwise be treated like the poor.

But the flip side is that without an asset test, you have people like the Frosts, enjoying a standard of living that anyone else would need a $200,000 income (at least) for and the money to live like that comes from . . . ??? where? The Frost parents are unwilling to sacrifice any aspect of that lifestyle, not the cars, not the house, not the self-employment. But they are not going to have health insurance unless someone else pays for it.

The reporters just accept it that the children are going to a very posh private school on “scholarships.” Does it make sense that a private school is raiding Baltimore public schools of middle class white children by giving them virtually full scholarships? No reporter with integrity would repeat that “scholarships” business without seeing documentation.

Not much of an interview but still some interesting tidbits about the private school, that they are being helped but no mention of full scholarships or only paying $500. The MSM throwing up scholarships raised more questions: Why is this posh private school raiding the Baltimore public schools for middle class white kids by giving them scholarships? The obvious likely answer is that these “scholarships” are earmarked for those particular children and why and by whom?

Halsey’s saying that they shouldn’t be punished for remodeling the house because he has these special skills to do that himself -— He could use those skills to work for money, too.

The piece brought up that if they’d had to pay for their children’s medical care, they’d have lost their house (and the 3 automobiles, too, maybe). Possibly but that is surely the purpose of insurance. People go on Medicaid every day because their money runs out and the government would like everyone to have long term care insurance because nursing homes are so expensive to the government. Kind of a contradiction in message here.

Also on the assault on “bloggers” and “posters” -— the folks at dailykos should take note. First they come for Michelle Malkin and then they come for you. (Actually, theres been MSM attacks on dailykos already and they were rightly outraged about it.)

Hi
Yeah this is a great issue in so many ways.

One thing that amazes me with the liberal blogs attacking Free Republic is that they don’t seem understand how the attacks from Hillary Clinton, Keith Olberman, Karen Tumulty, Paul Krugman, etc. are of apiece with attacks on dailykos and Markos Moulitsas. Its the same thing: the elites want to shut the citizens out of the discussion and have it all to themselves. But its not going to happen because people don’t voluntarily give up this freedom and say, “Lets go back to the old days when we had no impact on the issues.” Free Republic got Bill Clinton impeached and Joe Lieberman lost the Democratic primary because of dailykos. The elites hate it, liberals and conservatives and Democrats and Republicans.

They gotta show their documents and they won’t. They’ve already declined to show tax returns. When you put yourself into this level of politics, letting your child be used to attack the other party, you have to prove everything you say because you are a partisan. For all you know, each of the Frost children has a hundred thousand dollar bank account or more. For all you know, all of the $45,000 income they show is investment income. At this point, I don’t even know if Maryland SCHIP requires you to include income from tax free municipal bonds. Thats the gist of the issue: loopholes are bad public policy because they erode confidence.

My hunch is that the Frosts connected to the big Dems through that private school. Maybe some big Dems have their children at that school, its that fancy that it could be Pelosi kin.

Krugman’s column (NY Times) today is “The Sliming of Graeme Frost” and Tumulty (TIME) titles hers “The Swiftboating of Graeme Frost.” They are really going bonkers. Of course, none of the issues in this thread are addressed as to whether loopholes in the law make this program accessible to people who don’t have to work much because they’ve got other money. “Working” poor, right? The public wouldn’t buy it otherwise.

And if anyone is to blame for Graeme Frost being hurt, surely its his own parents and the Democrats. I saw Hillary Clinton on Olbermann last night and she goes right into slamming the “right wing” (like no one can have an opinion in this country any more if it differs from hers without being an extremist). Well, I remember very well that the Clintons shielded Chelsea when they were in the White House. It was one of the few good things I had to say about them. They did not trot her out to make political speeches. This boy is actually younger than Chelsea was. Clinton called him a “young man” and that was strange, too. Would she have called her daughter a “young woman” at age 12. No, it was the parents and her party that misused and abused this child.

Lets see where it goes. I am personally not a partisan for either party. I’d just like the truth, please.

“Since when does having “upper class roots” have anything to do with the issue of health insurance?” - because someone who comes from a millionaire family might be getting gifts. This family raises the suspicion of a loophole that would not have been raised without that Times wedding announcement.

Yes, its a very posh school. Posters above have noted very lavish amenities that are on the school’s website.

Saying doesn’t make it so. Have you seen any documentation? A poster above found a “quit claim” on this house in 2005. What was that all about? Was this the Mr. Frost who one who bought the property in 1990 or was it quit-claimed to him and his wife in 2005 by the Frost who did buy the property in 1990? Gotta nail those things down and not take anyone’s word for it now that its all become a political issue.

I remember so many of the liberal blogs jumping into the Norman Hsu story when it first broke that it was such a smear and unsubstantiated, etc. Well, they’re not saying that any more because Hsu turned out to be a fugitive and a big crook. Gotta see the Frosts’ deeds and bank accounts and put the Dean at that private school on record for how this particular family got a scholarship (and how much? documents, please) to this plum school. The Frosts are partisans; allowing the boy to be used the way they did makes them look like extreme partisans.

I know the experience. On another liberal forum, I was tempted to put a little aside in my comment about my view of the school lunch program when my daughter was in elementary school and 50% (!!!) of the children in that school were getting free lunch. I don’t even think they required showing your tax returns to get free lunch so probably a lot of people just lie to get the giveaway. IMO, its a terrible thing. I grew up in a working class family and we brought a peanut butter sandwich or a cream cheese and jelly sandwich to school every day and we made the sandwiches ourselves. It was very normal back then in the 50’s and 60’s. It was not a hardship.

I think the Democrats made a mistake using this 12 year old boy and then all the demonizing of anyone who questions the program. They’ve elevated the issue and now there might be some discussion of requiring the states to have an asset test for eligibility and requiring that applicants substantiate that the parents or at least one parent is actually putting in a 40 hour week.

Good questions. Did you get banned from whiskeyfire as I did yesterday when I asked some very polite questions about the story?

My hunch is that the Frosts are “artists” and their finances are subsidized by the children’s grandparents. Thats just my hunch but the reporters ought to ask the obvious questions to nail down why these folks are content with such a low income when they could make more. Is the $45k/yr even from work or is it from investments? I’d like to have a reporter look at the tax returns and say whats earned and whats investment income.

There is no reason to think that the children would not have had medical care for injuries resulting from the car accident without SCHIP, is there?

I’d want to see documentation on “scholarships” if I was a reporter and I’d want to know about the other 2 kids and where they go to school and how the Frosts got into this very posh private school in the first place. This family clearly has upper class roots -— why wouldn’t the school find kids who wouldn’t get opportunities any other way, i.e., kids from a poor or working class background.

Do any other family members donate to the school? Remember the Soprano episode where Carmela goes to lunch with the Dean at the Ivy League school Meadow goes to and he proposes a $50,000 donation and Carmela and Tony interpret it as an insurance policy to keep Meadow in good graces at the school?

There are too many gaps in this story. I was talking to my brother about it and his question was who it was that brought this particular case to the Democratic Party so that the boy could be used for the radio address.

Of course, Americans DO pay for a lot of healthcare without insurance: veterinary care for their pets. There are loads of vets around where I live but its sometimes hard to get an appointment. Its always a hefty bill to go to a vet and theres no insurance picking up any of it. Would anyone be surprised if the Frosts have pets and took them to the vet when they are sick and paid the bill themselves? But when it comes to their own children, there is a mentality of entitlement that the whole of society has a responsibility and that it would be a very good thing if medical care for your children was entirely provided by the government.

There are a lot of good reasons why modern high quality healthcare is expensive. I don’t see anyone dying in the streets because he/she can’t get medical care. In fact, just the opposite: I’ve seen modern medical practice keep people on expensive life support paid for by Medicare or Medicaid. Whether thats right or wrong is a whole other issue but it is certainly the fact of the matter in the US.

The Democrats really made a terrible mistake on this extending SCHIP. A whole lot of people - like me - never thought about this program and it could have gone on forever without being an issue to me. But here’s this family that is already on the program as it currently exists and I’m thinking this family is probably gaming the system and if I had all the facts, I would probably very much disapprove and now the Democrats want to extend it to millions more at higher incomes. From a non-issue, its become something I will probably decide that I’m against.

You haven’t given us enough information. What is your profession? Could you or your wife not get some kind of job with health insurance coverage through the employer? You really cannot expect other taxpayers to subsidize your desire to be your own boss. We all know people who plod on in jobs they don’t like, jobs that don’t have much in the way of opportunity. Maybe you have to take one of those that provides health insurance. Can’t you get a job at a Post Office? They have health insurance coverage and there are many Americans living on a Post Office salary.

I share your suspicion to some extent (although I think it more likely that the wealthy elders were just subsidizing the youngers so they didn’t need to be in the real world worrying about money). If we are correct, these folks are stinkers and pretty damned arrogant to think they could get away with being so high profile.

Couple things seem suspicious of it being the elder Frost who bought the property in 1990:
(1) The property was bought before the younger Frosts were married.
(2) the middle name “Halsey” isn’t on the 1990 record but it seems to be on every other identification of the younger Halsey, including his current ownership of the property.
I’m an equal opportunity skeptic of both parties but this story is amazing. If I was a partisan Democrat, I’d want to wring Nancy Pelosi’s neck (or whoever brought this family forward). Even the initial reporting on it plants some “I wonders” in your mind - that people with $45,000 income and 4 children aren’t trying harder to have a job with insurance and make more money. But then you’re just left wondering if the elder Frosts aren’t transferring tens of thousand a year to the younger Frosts and in other ways subsidizing the youngers since they’ve been married and in effect, the youngers have a lifestyle equal to people that John Edwards calls “the wealthy.”

What protection do the taxpayers have against people gaming this program?