Free Republic

--Drug use and abuse is not a victimless crime. And this is about the claim that if the laws were done away with that the crime would go away along with it's problems. I therefore ask again. If we legalize Rape, will it go away. Please answer. --

I just can't bite. The "victimless crime" argument can be made against alcohol AND gambling." The control over peoplse lives are just too "active" as opposed to "passive." That is, once someone actually does the part of the crime that has a victim, that is where you draw the line. You don't draw "preventitive" lines such as, "You cannot drink because you may get drunk and hurt someone." No, you CAN drink, but if you hurt someone, well, that's when the law steps in. The same should be true with drugs.

The rape example does not hold water.

--If I may butt in, it warrants more than "skimming". --

No it doesn't. This is not high school biology; it is a message board. Anything over two screens worth of post gets skimmed - even Medved's stuff. If something piques my interest, I'll read the whole thing. You don't understand that a lot of this (most of it) is rehash for me.

Sure there are crucial points. and I'ver argued them ad-nausium months and years ago. It's time for me to move on, but you guys really should debate it until you also find something better to do.

--You just want us to take it on faith that it's all refutable.--

Nope. I just don't have the time. I remember people reeling against someone by the name of Medved because of his voluminous posts over and over again, some of it very convincing. I agreed with these people. This isn't the place for that - from either side. When I see a post which has been cut and pasted (sometimes my own) that encumpass more than a page on my screen, I glaze over. I go to other sites for that.

Have a nice weekend folks. It looks like I'm gonna have to ride my bicycle home in a thunderstorm.

This has been a fun discussion. Steel sharpens steel!

--He's defending science, perhaps the crowning human achievement, against attack from pre-Enlightenment religious fundamentalism. That's an absolutely essential fight. I, for one, am grateful he's willing to put in the time necessary for this defense.--

And I applaud that. It is when the theory itself is defended with the same fervor that I get a little concerned.

--The problem isn't the quantity, but the quality.--

There's plenty on both sides, for those with open minds to observe.

--I don't defend it religiously. I defend it scientifically.--

You defend that it is THE ipso facto scientific explanation. And you do it with a RELIGIOUS FERVOR, for it doesn't warrant it. It is, after all, just a theory.

I skimmed your response and I must say this: It makes a point with which I think there is plenty of argument for and against.

The problem is that there is just too much to refute in your post. I just don't have the time nor inclination to do so in this forum. You've ratcheted up the time commitment too high. You take the pot, not because you have a winning hand, but because I didn't bring enough money (time) to call your last raise.

Don't spend it all in one place.

It was fun!

BTW, you're putting God in a box. He's bigger than that, and I'm not talking about the origin of species - that is just a fun thing to discuss. It is not relevant to the reality that matters.

I don't know anything about public mammaries, but if we're gonna fight a drug war we should fish or cut bait. The only thing the drug war is accomplishing is to slowly turn this country into a police state. And turn many to drug sales because of the irresistable profit compared to the complete lack of other options beyond golden arches.

--According to LeRoy not one innocent person will be harmed by the personal destruction of one person.

I beg to differ.--

I would beg to differ as well. However, that is NOT what he said - Not even remotely

--Including Jeb and G.W. Bush's daughters?--

Yes. But to be fair, if this policy had been in place ten years ago, it probably would not be an issue. They probably would not have used.

--Oh that's right, sorry, those who destroy themselves never ever harm innocent people in your perfect world. --

I want most peoples drivers licenses suspended for the same reason.

With freedom comes risk.

Thanks.

--So sorry Rush - but second hand smoke will hurt people as much as first hand smoke - smoke of any kind kills.--

HUH? I've been to two picnics and a state fair, and that is the stupidest thing I've heard over a set of headphones.

Nobody, NOBODY who understands this subject would endorse that sentence, even from the rabid anti-smoking crowd.

--I also rode a bike without a helmet, drove without a seat belt, and horor of horors, rode a horse without any safety gear, and by golly I grew up without experiencing death. Imagine that!--

I made that same point to a friend. His response: I was lucky.

I love to remind people who say a thing isn't "safe" that the word "safe" has no meaning without a qualifier. Riding without a seatbelt isn't "safe" but riding a motorcycle with a helmet IS "safe.?" Yeah, right.

Maybe they mean "legal."

--Funny how the children of the 30s, 40s, and 50s have yet to die off from second-hand smoke, don't ya think?--

Well, a lot of us ARE dead. 8-)

--Whether smoking should be outlawed is another issue, but folks it ain't good to breathe in smoke as a general principle.--

Technically correct. But quantity DOES matter. You don't get sick every time you're exposed to someone with something communicable because the total exposure must cross some threshold. Below that, it is harmless.

This is true with second-hand smoke. Below a certain threashold, you may smell it, but it is doing no harm whatsoever. Your body filters it away from harm as easily as it does all the other garbage in the air. The smoke is just more VISIBLE.

BTW, I HATE smoking and don't respect people who smoke, regardless of their lifes accomplishments. However, I hate all the bs statistics being bandied about regarding SH smoke. Here in Seattle there are a lot of billboards advertising that 58,000 people a year die of second-hand smoke. What tripe.

It makes me uncomfortable but it's none of the governments stinking business. I sincerely wish they would butt out!

--They don't even speak Spanish in Brazil.--

Heh, heh - precicely!

Y'know what? I like your post. It gets me to thinking that maybe we are fighting this war as we did the Vietnam war. That is, we're really not trying to win. Making it a SERIOUS offense to sell could shut things down real fast. As it is, each seller gets a few get out of jail free cards to use before the heat really gets turned on.

--It's not an accident that women end up in shelters. Many abused and terrorized women are isolated to the point that they don't have any friends or family to rely on if they did want to move out. Sad, but true.--

With that, I agree.

Happens to a lot of men too. The sad thing is, men and women are different and are hurt in different ways. There are a lot of men out there that have been CRUSHED by former wives, and they don't have a bruis on them; or their house, car or KIDS!

Oh, and the state empowered these women. Imagine a husband calling the police before he beats his wife. When they get there, they give him a billie club and HOLD HER DOWN for him, all the time telling her she deserves it and better learn her lesson.

That is the way many, many american men feel. It will be a problem soon, and, in fact, is already becoming one (why do you think we have metal detectors in court - it's not for the criminal cases). That is why so many states are coming up with covenant marriages and other such "solutions."

Told you I had an axe to grind. 8-)

--Can I rape your wife? (thank you for playing our example scenario round). Rather close minded of you not to let me sleep with your wife. How about if I murder her? Can I do that - rather closed minded of you not letting me do so. Catching on yet? "open mindedness" is a catchphrase used by those wanting to do whatever it is they will- right or wrong.--

Do you honestly think you are making good arguments?

--So if we legalize Rape, it will go away right.--

Rape is someone doing something to someone else, against their will.

Maybe a better example would be making masterbation illegal...

My first impression as I entered this thread was that you were pretty neutral on the subject and thought a nice positive story about cops would be nice. And I agree with that, btw.

It is painfully obvious as I read your posts up to the one I am responding to that you have an axe to grind on this subject.

Your opponents make good points that you are dismissing out of hand - and reducing yourself to name calling (pot-heads). It does not improve your credibility on the subject.