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Browsing while the busts started - Two busts on my block tonight
havoc | havoc

Posted on 05/15/2003 10:07:28 PM PDT by Havoc

The sound of a grenade is not something one is exposed to on a daily basis. I heard my first one earlier this evening as I browsed the web. I opened my front door to investigate and found my block covered in red and blue lights and well armed policemen.

Mostly hovering a few doors down, a major drug bust was happening. I put on a pot of coffee and went outside to peruse the goings on. Swat had been called in and enough squad cars to effectively shut down the entire block. The words "Search warrant for 1010" rang out over the police P.A. for about 5 minutes while the home was surrounded and subsequently invaded.

I stood on my lawn for a while just watching. In the night air, I found it necessary to go after my jacket, smokes and some of the fresh brewed coffee that I was sure was ready by this time. Neighbors gathered in my yard and we chatted with the officer standing perimeter nearby. You've never seen people so happy to see police doing their job, nor officers happy enough to be doing it.

This neighborhood and my street in particular has had a great deal of traffic for a 'quiet' part of town. It appears quiet to the unknowing. But when the traffic begins, people stay inside. A neighbor's boy had been shot in his own yard then dragged in his house and robbed some time ago. "They come to your door, knock, put a gun in your face and rob you" one neighbor stated. "Everyone's afraid. It's good they're doing this.."

The effects were immediately noteable. Others on the block stood complaining and perhaps wondering when the explosion at their door would come - followed by the serving of a warrant. One can hope it will be sooner than they can prepare for. The police were professional and handled the situation well. A force to be proud of.

It was a drug bust. I was a spectator rather than a journalist; so, I didn't get the numbers, merely the reaction and the general view. And I made a friend. I talked for a while with an officer on the street and found we knew some of the same people. We graduated two years apart and from the same school. This is a guy not even working narcotics - just there to lend a hand. And did a good job IMO.

As swat prepared to leave, vehicles that regularly visited our street only for a few minutes at a time rolled up on the scene, did abrupt u-turns and sped off. Time to go finish dinner.

As I sat at my computer once again trying to enjoy my steak, "Booom". Another concussion grenaide. Hooaah. I put my contacts back in, got my gear back on and found my new friend standing perimeter again. A few more houses down, the floor was littered with bodies in cuffs face down on the floor while swat secured the location and detectives moved in. Nice time to chat and get to know the officer better. Great guy - hope I see him again when I can buy him a cup of joe. He turned down fresh brewed at about 10:30 - "I gotta sleep sometime tonight," he grinned. understandable.

The scene has cleared now and no shots fired - no injuries other than prides of those who have dealt drugs and terror to the neighborhood seemingly without challenge up to now. They aren't the only ones and I doubt they'll be the last. I know little of the goings on other than instincts and what I've heard from the neighbors. Tonight I learned more about my surroundings than I thought I could in 4 hours. And I reinforced my understanding of just how screwed in the head libertarians are on this subject. They see a "harmless drug" and discount the damage done by those who push them. But then, one defends what one generally likes despite the protestations that they don't use.

Because of the actions of a lot of cops just doing their duty, a lot of good people are breathing and sleeping easier tonight. Hats off to KPD! The war on drugs came to my street tonight. And I'm glad it was here - though I'm sure some will attempt to disposess me of the notion that these druggies are bad. The real bad guys are the boys in blue, they'd proffer. Patent nonsense, the real bad guys are the druggies and those who enable them and rally to their cause. I wonder how many libertarians and democrats went to jail tonight.. I too will rest easy.


TOPICS: Editorial; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: addiction; drugbust; libertarians; warondrugs; wodlist
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To: Havoc
I don't favor letting one evil loose on all of society

Relegalized drugs would be let loose only on those who chose to use them---everyone else would remain free to not use them.

to knock down a less significant evil that threatens part of our society.

The following effects of the War On Some Drugs threaten ALL of our society: deaths of innocents in drug-turf wars; enrichment of criminals; and corruption of the justice system by enriched criminals.

381 posted on 05/16/2003 12:58:19 PM PDT by MrLeRoy (The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. - Jefferson)
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To: Havoc
--And I reinforced my understanding of just how screwed in the head libertarians are on this subject. They see a "harmless drug" and discount the damage done by those who push them. But then, one defends what one generally likes despite the protestations that they don't use.--

What a warped analysis. The WOD CREATED the need for crack houses. That's not how legal products like beer and Jack Daniels are sold...
382 posted on 05/16/2003 12:59:54 PM PDT by Not Insane
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To: Roscoe
once it's legal for them to sell crack they'll all stop. Thus sayeth the cult!

No, they won't stop buying and selling and using but the crime- the murders, will go way down. The robbery and mugging will decrease dramatically. Violence among the druggies and violence against citizens will drop.

383 posted on 05/16/2003 1:00:21 PM PDT by arthurus
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To: Havoc; breakem
Bull. The problems we have are due to a group of people wanting money and power that is satisfied by pushing drugs and carrying weapons to enforce their dealings. The laws are not the problem. The lawbreakers are the problem.

Exactly right. If they couldn't get rich off drugs then it would be something else to satisfy their greed. Maybe child porn, or contract killing or anything else that can make them big bucks.

384 posted on 05/16/2003 1:01:49 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: Havoc
If we ignore those laws, we surrender to despotism where anyone can do anything as long as they are strong enough to pull it off. Sorry, give an inch and they take a mile.

That works both ways. Racheting up society's response to the dirtbags can do as much damage as the dirtbags themselves. Some aspects of the WOD, i.e. civil forfieture, have given police department a powerful incentive to keep the drug trade in business. In some cases, a significant portion of the law enforcement agency's budget is derived from drug seizures. Cops getting to ambitious going after druggies are canceling their own meal ticket.

The cops kicking in doors is a stopgap measure that tells you something else has gone seriously wrong. The most compelling argument I have seen is that these things go on because the communities where they go on tolerate the scofflaws. It is not be you personally, but it is the unwed mother of the gangbanger living next door to you.

It is a result of cultural decay, and many times no matter what the police and authorities do, the only option is for decent people to evacuate and let the miscreants reap the whirlwind. Witness most inner city slums.

385 posted on 05/16/2003 1:04:35 PM PDT by hopespringseternal
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To: CurlyDave
The laws of economics tell us that as long as drugs are illegal, the immense profits available from their sale will attract drug sellers in a free and capitalistic society.

So, I guess the drug problems in the USSR must have been mythical because they were not a free and capitalistic society. Bang! Zoom! Outta here. Supply and demand is universal. Has nothing to do with the society in which it exists. It is true everywhere. If the price were such a big issue, then crime wouldn't be so rampant with regards to the ehem non-addictive marijuana (yeah right). A habit is an addiction. And cheap dime bags still prompt people to steal. Cigarettes are far cheeper on the whole and people steal to get them. IE - pull the other one!

I keep wondering why it is so difficult for people to obey the law.

386 posted on 05/16/2003 1:06:42 PM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Havoc
--These people that bloviate about how harmless drugs would be if legalized are either ignorant or blinded by their own love of substances (illegal ones).--

My last shenanigans with drugs was marijuana, in 1977. It's the hardest stuff I ever took. I am a professing Christian fundamentalist. I think taking drugs is the height of stupidity.

I think drugs should be legal, like alcohol. You want to do something about the punks, take away their market. As long as drugs are illegal, and as long as there is a market for them, you will have this problem. I think the current "cure" is doing far more harm than the disease it perports to "control."
387 posted on 05/16/2003 1:08:13 PM PDT by Not Insane
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To: DouglasKC
If they couldn't get rich off drugs then it would be something else to satisfy their greed. Maybe child porn, or contract killing or anything else that can make them big bucks.

The mere desire to make big bucks does not create the means or opportunity to make big bucks.

388 posted on 05/16/2003 1:10:18 PM PDT by MrLeRoy (The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. - Jefferson)
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To: FITZ
the tens of thousands of brutal crimes on completely innocent victims

Most of this criminal activity is traceable directly to the prohibition of these substances. Illegality makes for the tremendous opportunities for profit which causes the gang wars and the home invasions and the random shootings(which are due to no gun control-the shooters can't control their iron).

389 posted on 05/16/2003 1:10:31 PM PDT by arthurus
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To: Havoc
--Drugs destroy lives. legalization will only allow them to inflict their damage on a broader scale. Which is why they are outlawed to begin with.--

So does gambling.

How someone else screws up their life is not something I should endevor to control. Try to compel them to clean up or abstain? Yes! But the decision should be theirs, and in spite of the WOD, it obviously is...
390 posted on 05/16/2003 1:10:47 PM PDT by Not Insane
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To: BlueNgold
I can understand why you are upset. My parents, too, were abusers of drugs. Passed out every night, sometimes in their dinner plate. I had no supervision until I was a teen-ager, and by then it was too late. It wasn't until I was older I realized all the times they drove me around stoned out of their heads. The WOD? Doesn't do a thing to alcoholics and the effects on their families. How would/does it help your situation? By making the parents criminals, instead of able to seek help with a modicum of respect? The WOD isn't working. That's obvious. Just like the War on Education, oops I mean public schools.
391 posted on 05/16/2003 1:10:53 PM PDT by eyespysomething (Breaking down the stereotypes of soccer moms everyday!)
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To: Havoc
If the price were such a big issue, then crime wouldn't be so rampant with regards to the ehem non-addictive marijuana (yeah right).

What does (non)addictiveness have to do with price?

And cheap dime bags still prompt people to steal.

The issue is not unit price but profit margin.

392 posted on 05/16/2003 1:12:52 PM PDT by MrLeRoy (The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. - Jefferson)
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To: breakem
Ah, the "feed the Dragon and it will eat us all last" approach. Tell me, why do you suppose God forbade Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of life? Why didn't he just let them do what they wanted - and we wouldn't have had all this sin entering the world mess... Because rules and laws, whether we like all of them or not, are there to protect us all as a whole and individually. When they are broken, we send police to deal with the perpetrators. That is how society works - at least here. Then of course there are the liberal strongholds where one can buy cops; but, that's another issue...
393 posted on 05/16/2003 1:13:15 PM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Havoc
why do you suppose God forbade Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of life? Why didn't he just let them do what they wanted

Government is not God.

Because rules and laws, whether we like all of them or not, are there to protect us all as a whole and individually.

The War On Some Drugs makes me less safe, not more.

394 posted on 05/16/2003 1:16:07 PM PDT by MrLeRoy (The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. - Jefferson)
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To: Havoc
My first impression as I entered this thread was that you were pretty neutral on the subject and thought a nice positive story about cops would be nice. And I agree with that, btw.

It is painfully obvious as I read your posts up to the one I am responding to that you have an axe to grind on this subject.

Your opponents make good points that you are dismissing out of hand - and reducing yourself to name calling (pot-heads). It does not improve your credibility on the subject.
395 posted on 05/16/2003 1:16:47 PM PDT by Not Insane
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To: Basil314
You are a rather close minded person from backwoods Indiana

Can I rape your wife? (thank you for playing our example scenario round). Rather close minded of you not to let me sleep with your wife. How about if I murder her? Can I do that - rather closed minded of you not letting me do so. Catching on yet? "open mindedness" is a catchphrase used by those wanting to do whatever it is they will- right or wrong.

396 posted on 05/16/2003 1:17:09 PM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Havoc
--So if we legalize Rape, it will go away right.--

Rape is someone doing something to someone else, against their will.

Maybe a better example would be making masterbation illegal...
397 posted on 05/16/2003 1:18:18 PM PDT by Not Insane
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To: jmc813
I see you finally got rid of your false tag line.
398 posted on 05/16/2003 1:18:44 PM PDT by cinFLA
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To: MrLeRoy; Havoc
Its already loose in society, isn't it? The WOD isn't working. I'm not sure what to do about all this, but the WOD isn't it. Throwing money at the problem is not a solution. The same way everyone here agrees that public education cannot have any more money thrown at it. Instead of beating each other up over this, we should be finding a new solution, cause this one (WOD)isn't working.
399 posted on 05/16/2003 1:20:46 PM PDT by eyespysomething (Breaking down the stereotypes of soccer moms everyday!)
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To: Havoc
--Can I rape your wife? (thank you for playing our example scenario round). Rather close minded of you not to let me sleep with your wife. How about if I murder her? Can I do that - rather closed minded of you not letting me do so. Catching on yet? "open mindedness" is a catchphrase used by those wanting to do whatever it is they will- right or wrong.--

Do you honestly think you are making good arguments?
400 posted on 05/16/2003 1:23:36 PM PDT by Not Insane
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