Free Republic

"OK, I WILL, BUT I AM STILL HALF WAY THROUGH MY DOWNLOADED COPY OF "ELDERS OF THE PROTOCOLS OF ZION." AFTER THAT I HAVE SOME MATERIAL ON ALIEN ABDUCTION, AND THE SEARCH THE IMAGE OF MOHAMMED AT THE BOTTOM OF A FRYING PAN IN CUBA. GOOD STUFF. IT'S ON THE INTERNET SO IT MUST BE TRUE. AFTER THAT, I'LL LOOK INTO WHAT YOU SUGGESTED AND GET BACK TO YOU, OK?"

Er, O.K. but perhaps you should spend more time in college libraries, and less time on the inter-net. Just a suggestion...

" Hello Ari...is the old Imam still around? I thought that post was years ago...yet I did think you guys were playing the violin quite well together."

Got something against violin music? and who are you calling old?

"Tell the Imam I have found their headquarters on Mars."

Er, thanks but WHOSE headquarters? And how is it that you found it when no one else could? Go there often???

"That's him all right. What happened to the tolerance he was preaching to me, specifically??

Taqiyyeh--telling me what he thought would make islam palatable to me.

What a bunch of bull..."

Hey, no deception intended.I do have a fairly tolerant view of some things I believe. But even God has limits and doesn't tolerate EVERY thing, you know?
peace

Keep watching, and you'll understand. BTW since you do "surf", you might try looking for articles on "genetic memory", "collective consciousness", "historical consciousness", and the like. Interesting stuff. I didn't make it up. I just believe that those typre of concepts are not just confined to white folks.

SHAME ON YOU. THERE YOU GO AGAIN SPREADING DISTORTIONS ABOUT WHO I AM AND WHAT I STAND FOR. PLEASE NOTE: (1) MY ANTI-WAR ACTIVITY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE U.S. VS.AL QAEDA. IT HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE AFGHANI PEOPLE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. (2) THIS IS A DELIBERATE LIE DESIGNED TO APPEAL TO PEOPLE WHO DISLIKE REV. SHARPTON, WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ANTI-WAR PROTESTS I WORKED ON. I DID WORK WITH HIM AROUND THE AMADOU DIALLO CASE.GOT A PROBLEM WITH ME SPEAKING OUT WHEN INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE GUNNED DOWN? HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND IF FOUR BLACK COPS GUNNED DOWN AN INNOCENT YOUNG WHITE MAN?(3)ON JIHAD: ANOTHER DELIBERATE LIE (WHY IS IT THAT SOMEONE FEELS COMPELLED TO MIS-REPRESENT WHAT I SAY? THREATENED BY THE TRUTH?) ANYWAY, WHAT I SAID IS:
"Jihad is one of the most misunderstood of Islamic terms used today, and many Muslims are as confused by it as non-Muslims. In the West, few words carry as much power to instill fear or hatred. That's because the news media have widely interpreted jihad to mean "holy war," linking it with extremism and terrorism in the public consciousness. News reports of bombings in the Middle East only deepen the identification of jihad with violence. It's not surprising that so many Americans perceive the word in light of the Crusades of centuries ago -- as a kind of latter-day Crusade in reverse.
But the concept of jihad is a beautiful one that has nothing to do with aggressive warfare. Simply put, jihad finds its origin in the verb jahada which means to struggle, to fight.
The word has a few different connotations, since struggle can occur on several levels. Muslims understand these levels based not only on the words of Allah in the Qur'an, but also on the authentic statements of the Prophet Muhammad as recorded in our oral traditions, preserved as ahadith. Here are the levels of jihad:

Personal Jihad: Prophet Muhammad Ibn 'Abdullah (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "The most excellent jihad is that of the soul." This jihad, called the Jihadun-Nafs, is the intimate struggle to purify the soul of satanic influence -- both subtle and overt. It is the struggle to cleanse one's spirit of sin. This is the most important level of jihad.

Verbal Jihad: On another occasion, the Prophet said, "The most excellent jihad is the speaking of truth in the face of a tyrant." He encouraged raising one's voice in the name of Allah on behalf of justice.

Physical Jihad: This is combat waged in defense of Muslims against oppression and transgression by the enemies of Allah, Islam and Muslims. We are commanded by Allah to lead peaceful lives and not transgress against anyone, but also to defend ourselves against oppression by "fighting against those who fight against us." This "jihad with the hand" is the aspect of jihad that has been so profoundly misunderstood in today's world."
GOT IT? I HOPE SO. LET'S SEE, OH YEAH:
(4)"ALLEGED" BACK-LASH? TELL THAT TO PEOPLE (MUSLIMS, OR OTHER FOLK WHO "LOOKED LIKE" MUSLIMS)WHO WERE PHYSICALLY ATTACKED, OR WHO HAD THEIR PLACES OF WORSHIP VANDALIZED, (5)PRAISE OF MALCOLM X? YES.I AM GUILTY AS CHARGED.PEOPLE WHOM THE U.S. POST OFFICE HONORS ARE O.K. WITH ME(6) SUPPORT FOR IMAM JAMIL? RIGHT AGAIN. IS HE A "DOMESTIC TERRORIST"? THE U.S. GOV'T HAS SAID A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT HIM, BUT NEVER IDENTIFIED HIM AS THAT. WHO STARTED THAT ONE? "COP-KILLER"? YES HE HAS BEEN CONVICTED OF THAT. I ATTENDED HIS TRIAL AND STILL BELIEVE HIM INNOCENT, AND THAT ONE DAY HE'LL BE FOUND INNOCENT ON APPEAL. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT, YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT. BUT I HAVE A RIGHT TO BELIEVE IN JUSTICE,AND THAT SOMETIMES THE AMERICAN CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM TAKES A LONG TIME, BUT WORKS WITH ERRORS MADE ON THE WAY. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT? DID YOU ATTEND HIS TRIAL? OF COURSE THESE ARE RHETORICAL QUESTIONS, AS I KNOW YOU GENTLEMEN ARE NOT INTERESTED IN SUCH THINGS. ANYWAY, SEE YOU AROUND GUYS. HAVE A GOOD DAY.P.S. HOW IS THAT THESS NEO-CON PROPOGANDA REFERENCES AGAINST ME APPEARED HERE BEFORE ELSEWHERE? SOMEONE HERE WORKING WITH SOMEONE ELSE LIKE HOROWITZ?

"Through" with me? Promise? Well, see you and your boys around, pally -NOT!

To you your beliefs and way of life, and to me, mine.

Beware of decontextualized, poorly Qur'anic texts. Case in point,generally speaking:
1) Those verses you cite were revealed during a time when the Muslims were involved in both defensive and offensive military actions as a faith community, after having been persecuted, attacked, slaughtered, exiled, and put under seige by their enemies. All of the verses you mention regarding "killing unbelievers" are to be seen in that context. "Unbelievers" is a translation of the Arabic word "Kaafiruun", and specifially refers to the Meccan pagans/polytheists who oppressed and murdered the religious minority monotheistic, Muslims because of their beliefs.
2) What is translated in whatever text that you're reading as "friends" is the Arabic word (don't forget that the Qur'an is in Classical Arabic text)"Awliyaa", again more properly translated "protectors" or "protecting friends/patrons, etc". These verses are precautions to the Muslims against turning over supervision and sponsorship of their security and affairs to people of other faiths- especially when they may be hostile towards us (Muslims). Rather we are told to "handle our own business". The same for the verse about parents, and siblings (which you left out), when they are hostile towards us. Again this a general precept. One of the Prophet Muhammad's major sponsors and protectors was his uncle Abdul Mutaalib, who never formally accepted Islam or any other monotheistic faith tradition, but was not hostile towards the faith nor the Cause. Muslims have specifically been told in the Qur'an and in the speech of the Prophet to love, honor and obey our parents and families, even if their faith is different from ours. And on yeah - on that "pug-nosed raisin head" stuff. Speaking as one, let ne say that is again a VERY poor translation from Arabic to English of the Hadith sacred traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), that one almost never sees these days except in materials circulated by detractors of Islam. Actually in both of the examples you mention, the text says "An Ethiopian slave with a head like a raisin". Two things -first you left out the beginning part of the statement, which is "Listen to and obey your ruler, even if..." and then the rest. This is an instruction to the Arabs to put aside ethnic prejudice and follow the commands of those in authority regardless or race or ethnicity. Hm-m-m, sounds good to me (what about you?) And on the "head like a raisin", thats referring to hair texture and maybe forehead and hair (er, when was the last time you looked at the actor Wesley Snipes' head? I was just watching the film "Art of War" on TBS last night, and during a close-up of his head, it looked like a raisin like to me, heh. heh. Oh btw, the text mentions NOTHING about noses. EVERYONE -BEWARE OF DISTORTIONS, PURPOSEFUL OR IGNORANT.
peace

Ha-ha. Boy you really don't know about me do you? Ask my personal friends (and their families): Rabbis Rolando Matalon, Peter Rubenstein, (Emeritus) Ronald Sobel, as well as congregational members of B'Nai Jeshrun, organizational members of Jews for Justice - shall I go on? I'm not into that Anti-Jewish
stuff. If you don't hold it against me that I'm black and Muslim, I won't hold it against you that you're white and Jewish, you see?
peace on earth (one day maybe), good will towards men and women

REGARDING PRE-COLUMBIAN AFRICAN EXPLORATION OF THE AMERICAS: You asked for sources and I gave them to you. Why not do some investigation? What I saw here were people commenting on the Olmec heads.etc. What I'm referring to are Muslim West and North West African explorers, and there's PLENTY of evidence to support my statements. It's in the sources.
ON AFRICAN AMERICAN MUSLIMS CONVERTS:
Firstly, the Almighty God opens up people's hearts, not me. I don't work to convert anyone, per se.But those who have a sense of REverting I do work with. Second, you would be shocked at how many African Americans are of West African origin, and how many of our ancestors were Muslims, and again there are plenty of books on this. Third, my comments on a third of the slaves is referring to the entire Atlantic Slave Trade population, which encompassed millions of Africans from different parts of the continent. Many of the slaves brought to North America to the South were of West African origin, and that which predominated there then, and now, is Islam. Case in point -there are more Muslims in Nigeria alone, than in all of the Arab Gulf states combined. This is in contrast to slaves who were for instance of Central African origin, who were animists.Further, the proof is in the pudding. African Americans are even now, according to statisticians (THAT you can look up on the 'Net)about a third of the total Muslim population in America. We vastly outnumber other Americans (White, Spanish-speaking, etc.) in our acceptance of Islam. How do you account for that if there is no historical link, whatsoever? Fourth,You state "I have sympathy for his ancestors if that is true.." Thanks, but if you don't know what was done to my ancestors by this time, the 21st century, I feel sorry for you.Apparently you don't or we wouldn't be having this public conversation. The things that I mentioned that seem to upset you so much (I'm still trying to figure out why) are related to things like group identity and historical conscience, which again you don't seem to understand the importance of when it comes to my people, but you enjoy the benefits of when it comes to yours. It's not so easy for us African Americans to find out much about our specific familial ancestors' identities beyond a certain point -or have you forgotten that, and why that is? Group identity, and its role in the psychology and self-esteem of all human beings is something well documented in academic and scientific circles. Do you begrudge my people for wanting to have what others do, which is a sense of ancestral linkage? What I teach doesn;t apply to all African Americans because we are all not descended from Muslims. But it does pertain to SOME of us. and it is for them. It is even for people like you who know nothing of the positive work and contributions of Muslim African people to the building of America in many ways. AS FOR MY WORK WITH PRISONERS: My time working with them is spent on character reformation, repentance, the values of being productive members of society - being clean, hard-working, honest, sober, compassionate, responsible, etc. Er, do you have a problem with that also? As for the rest, some of your comments in this post (166) impugn my character, suggest that I am or would be deceptive, etc. which is why I didn't respond to it in the first place. Shame on you, and I'm just, as the young people say, "Not going to go there with you". This discourse has been for the benefit of those who might gain something from it. Those who are sincere and diligent and really want to know the truth will do some digging, and I have told them where to look. I invite you to join them. Until you do, you will not be able to really evaluate much of what I am talking about.IOf you never do, well that's your perogative isn't it?

Hewy I'm not being evasive. I'm just answering your questions the way that I want to, instead of the way YOU want me to. I've stated where the answers are. If you want to know answers you will go there. If you don't you won't, period. I repeat - are you seeking the truth or do you just want to joust? Truth I have time for (and I realize that there are people who want the truth here, just as there are others that don't), jousting for jousting sake, I don't. When are you going to take the time to check out the sources that I have clearly pointed to and then comment on them? Your refusal to do so is very telling. The disrespectful TONE evident in your post 166 is also telling, but just to be a good sport I will indulge it. Please read

Good evening all, I'm back again as I was thinking about those links (post 82), and this is what I want to say: First, on the book suggested by Mr. Nerks (post 74), it is a reality that there have been several books written over the years by so-called Orientalists, Christian Missionaries and others, whose purpose has been to spread dis-information about Islam, Muslims, and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Their mind-set is the same as the people who've written the above links. Consider this though, if you will - It is not difficult to search the 'Net and come up with links that say filthy, lying, blasphemous, and slanderous things about Jesus, the Son of Mary. Muslims believe as do Christians, that JESUS IS THE VERY MANIFEST WORD OF GOD. We also believe that that is a distinction that the Prophet Muhammad does not share. Now if there are evil, Satanically inspired people who would slander Jesus (THE MANIFEST WORD OF GOD), then why wouldn't there be such people who would do the same to Muhammad, who according to Muslim belief was only a (divinely inspired)mortal being not the manifest LOGOS (as was Adam)? How do we tell the truth you might ask? Well instead of me going back and forth answering or rebutting things on a web-site, I hereby reccomend the following books for those who really seek the truth (yes , it's still about research):
1- THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD by MUHAMMAD HAYKAL (not by Edward Sells)
2- THE SEALED NECTAR (biography of the Noble Prophet) by SAIF-UR-RAHMAN MUBAKPURI
3- MUHAMMAD MESSENGER OF ALLAH by QADI IYAD
Now for those who prefer books written by non-Muslims (for fear of a lack of objectivity - although this logic should also be applied to books written by people who are avowed detractors, opponents, and enemies of Islam, as well), I've been told that the book MUHAMMAD:BIOGRAPHY OF THE PROPHET by Karen Armstrong, is a book "every Christian should read", and I assume that might be good for non-Christians also. All of thse books can be easily found or at least ordered through chain book stors like Barnes and Noble
peace out, good night to all

re: the jihad statement:

go to "www.beliefnet.com/story/4/story_475_1.html" , or do a "google" search under "imam talib abdur-rashid, jihad", and then click "Beliefnet.com", and while you're at it, click the one that reads, "the concept of jihad in islam" from religioustolerance.org
really this time,peace out
(it's 1:30 in the a.m. here)

Man, you really have me working here. Yes, I'm sure that you are curious about that considering the crap (excuse my language) that you have read about the most maligned of the Prophets (peace be upon them all). When I can get the time maybe I'll construct a web-site and answer the trash such as that on those links you've cited. It'll take a lot of work to answer as I'm sure you realize. In the meantime, don't believe EVERYTHING you read, and always ask yourself, WHO wrote this? and what was their MOTIVE in writing it?
peace out
"...Of all of our studies, history is best qualified to reward all research" -Malcolm X

Hm-m-m, such informal address of me by someone who doesn't even use their real name to post is suspect. Sorry you haven't thus far found my references on line, but I have, as I said before, spent years doing research in libraries, and you will have to spend a least a little time doing the same, or wait until I finish writing my book and buy it. You might try going to college or special collection libraries for starters. But the titles I suggested, or at least 2 of 3 of them are readily available, or can be ordered on line I'm sure. Why not start there? I wholeheartedly agree that just because something is in a book that doesn't make it true. That is why RESEARCH is important. As for the jury still being out for you until you can do that, that's a perfectly intelligent position.
peace out

That nonsense about the "Qur'anic term jihad" is not true and a purposeful distorion of a statement that I made which is readily available on the 'Net. Whoever did that was trying to misrepresent what I say, by decontexualizing my words and framing them in their own context (hey, is that what you're doing with reagrds to the Time Square anti-war demo? And yes, I did work with Rev. Sharpton around the killing of an innocent, unarmed African Muslim named Amadou Diallo. As for the rest, my politics and such are no secret as a "google" search will reveal.I make no apologies for where I'm coming from. I find it so interesting though, that of all the things about me that can be pulled down on the 'Net, you chose to pull what you have with no mention of my long track record of all kinds of humanitarian work, peace-making, inter-faith relations, etc. etc. That sort of thing is what makes ME have notions of "suspect intentions".
good night to you sir

...and please pardon my typos

Good day to all

I guess. What I was saying is that I have never personally been incarcerated but I have worked in prisons for many years.

I agree with you