Posted on 01/23/2005 1:23:04 PM PST by Land_of_Lincoln_John
CAIRO , January 23 (IslamOnline.net) – A perusal through the annals of American history brings back bittersweet memories for African American Muslims, who pride themselves on being the indigenous people of this country and lament the loss of the Islamic heritage throughout ages.
“Not only were there African Muslims who were here in America as explorers before Christopher Columbus, but a third of the African slaves who were brought here during the slave trade were Muslims,” Imam Al-Hajj Talib Abdur-Rashid told The Seattle Times Saturday, January 22.
“We, the indigenous Muslims of America, particularly the African Americans, are still waking up from a 400-year coma.”
Abdur-Rashid acrimoniously recalled how his Muslim ancestors were brought to America as slaves and forced to convert to Christianity.
“We suffered psychic and blunt-force trauma to the head, and forgot everything, including who we are and what we are. We were told, 'Your name is not Ahmed, your name is Charlie. You don't worship Allah. You worship Jesus,'” he told the paper.
“But this could not erase the genetic code. So lo (sic) and behold, 400 years later ... our historical memory as Muslims is being rebooted,” added Abdur-Rashid, who was born a Baptist.
Stereotypes
Many African American Muslims further decry the prevailing stereotypes that their community was mainly made up of criminals, as some of them embrace Islam in prison.
“I have never been in prison except in my work as a chaplain,” said Abdur-Rashid.
“And I have people in leadership in my mosque who are college professors, and I also have people who are ex-offenders.”
African American Muslims also feel offended by affiliating the whole community with the Nation of Islam, especially that estimates showed that only a few thousands of some two million African American Muslims follow the group’s tenets.
Leading Muslim scholars have ruled that “the teachings of the Nation of Islam were extremely far from mainstream Islam in many matters especially those of doctrine”.
The Seattle Times said that the community is keen on playing an active role in developing American society.
It cited one of their famous mosques, the Islamic Brotherhood in New York, as a case in point with boy scout meetings, breast-cancer fund-raising and programs to combat AIDS and homelessness.
“Many here see Islam not just as a path to salvation but also as a social-action program and an authentic expression of black American identity,” the paper commented.
Marginalized
Many African American Muslims also complain about being marginalized not only by American society but, alas, by Muslim immigrants from Arab and southeast Asian countries.
“We are the single largest Muslim community in America . Yet the media often relegates us to the margins,” said Amir Al-Islam, a professor of Islamic Studies at Medgar Evers College of the City University of New York.
He further regretted that other Muslim communities in the States treat African American Muslims as less authentic despite the fact that they have been practicing Islam for decades in the country.
“Muslim organizations from the immigrant community often view us as new Muslims who are seen as not proficient in the Islamic canons and, therefore, lacking in authenticity,” Al-Islam told the paper.
Abdur-Rashid added that the marginalization of his community was very much evident in the presidential election.
A number of major US Muslim groups gave a “qualified endorsement” to Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry, calling on Muslims to vote for him.
“There was no consultation whatsoever with those of us who have any history in this land. And then, to project their collective decision as representative of all Muslims in America was an insult,” Abdur-Rashid said.
“As Ralph Ellison would say, we are the invisible Muslims in this country,” Al-Islam concluded.
Thanks for the ping Fred. I'm glad I didn't miss those last comments by the Imam!
Forgive my bluntness at times, but like most of your other replies here, this seems evasive and does not really answer anything.
Let's break this down into a simple YES/NO.
Was Mohammed a slave owner? Did he support slavery? The answer to both is YES, correct?
I can not believe the example Mohammed set for his followers does not concern someone like you, who claims to have ancestors that were the victims of this practice.
Why is this?
It may be so, but the the authors of the articles in the links I provided above back up their claims by quoting from the Koran and hadeeths. Surely you are not saying the Koran and hadeeths themselves are "filthy, lying, blasphemous, and slanderous."
In the meantime, don't believe EVERYTHING you read, and always ask yourself, WHO wrote this? and what was their MOTIVE in writing it?
If you question my sources and want Islamic sources, I'll start with Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan. What motivation did Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan have when he ran his mouth off in the article below:
(Washington)… November 7, 2003 …The main author of the Saudi religious curriculum expressed his unequivocal support for the legalization of slavery in one of his lectures recorded on a cassette and obtained exclusively by SIA news.
Leading government cleric Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan is the author of the religious books currently used to teach 5 million Saudi students, both within the and in Saudi schools aboard – including those in the Washington, D.C. metro area.
“Slavery is a part of Islam,” he says in the tape, adding: “Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam.”
Government spokesman Adel Al-Jubeir and other officials have repeatedly claimed religious curriculums are being reformed, but Al-Fawzan’s books continued to be used according to the minister of education’s statements published by Al-Watan daily September 14th, 2003.
Al-Fawzan is member of the Senior Council of Clerics, Saudi Arabia’s highest religious body, a member of the Council of Religious Edicts and Research, the Imam of Prince Mitaeb Mosque in Riyadh, and a professor at Imam Mohamed Bin Saud Islamic University, the main Wahhabi center of learning in the country.
Al-Fawzan refuted the mainstream Muslim interpretation that Islam worked to abolish slavery by introducing equality between the races.
“They are ignorant, not scholars,” he said of people who express such opinions. “They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel.”
Al-Fawzan’s most famous book, “Al-Tawheed – Monotheism”, is taught to Saudi high school students. In it, he says that most Muslims are polytheists, and their blood and money are therefore free for the taking by “true Muslims.”
This is such a steaming pile. Historical revisionism.
Was about H. Rap Brown, a domestic terrorist and recently jailed cop killer, now known as Imam Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin?
Was he a "innocent, unarmed African Muslim" too?
Please see my post #166
If you continue to be evasive and not answer the many questions I and others have put to you, there is not much point having a discussion.
It is unfortunate that you would not want this opportunity to clarify your position on the few items I have brought up so far.
"Peace out" to all.
Thank you for your recommendation.
Have a good day.
Hewy I'm not being evasive. I'm just answering your questions the way that I want to, instead of the way YOU want me to. I've stated where the answers are. If you want to know answers you will go there. If you don't you won't, period. I repeat - are you seeking the truth or do you just want to joust? Truth I have time for (and I realize that there are people who want the truth here, just as there are others that don't), jousting for jousting sake, I don't. When are you going to take the time to check out the sources that I have clearly pointed to and then comment on them? Your refusal to do so is very telling. The disrespectful TONE evident in your post 166 is also telling, but just to be a good sport I will indulge it. Please read
REGARDING PRE-COLUMBIAN AFRICAN EXPLORATION OF THE AMERICAS: You asked for sources and I gave them to you. Why not do some investigation? What I saw here were people commenting on the Olmec heads.etc. What I'm referring to are Muslim West and North West African explorers, and there's PLENTY of evidence to support my statements. It's in the sources.
ON AFRICAN AMERICAN MUSLIMS CONVERTS:
Firstly, the Almighty God opens up people's hearts, not me. I don't work to convert anyone, per se.But those who have a sense of REverting I do work with. Second, you would be shocked at how many African Americans are of West African origin, and how many of our ancestors were Muslims, and again there are plenty of books on this. Third, my comments on a third of the slaves is referring to the entire Atlantic Slave Trade population, which encompassed millions of Africans from different parts of the continent. Many of the slaves brought to North America to the South were of West African origin, and that which predominated there then, and now, is Islam. Case in point -there are more Muslims in Nigeria alone, than in all of the Arab Gulf states combined. This is in contrast to slaves who were for instance of Central African origin, who were animists.Further, the proof is in the pudding. African Americans are even now, according to statisticians (THAT you can look up on the 'Net)about a third of the total Muslim population in America. We vastly outnumber other Americans (White, Spanish-speaking, etc.) in our acceptance of Islam. How do you account for that if there is no historical link, whatsoever? Fourth,You state "I have sympathy for his ancestors if that is true.." Thanks, but if you don't know what was done to my ancestors by this time, the 21st century, I feel sorry for you.Apparently you don't or we wouldn't be having this public conversation. The things that I mentioned that seem to upset you so much (I'm still trying to figure out why) are related to things like group identity and historical conscience, which again you don't seem to understand the importance of when it comes to my people, but you enjoy the benefits of when it comes to yours. It's not so easy for us African Americans to find out much about our specific familial ancestors' identities beyond a certain point -or have you forgotten that, and why that is? Group identity, and its role in the psychology and self-esteem of all human beings is something well documented in academic and scientific circles. Do you begrudge my people for wanting to have what others do, which is a sense of ancestral linkage? What I teach doesn;t apply to all African Americans because we are all not descended from Muslims. But it does pertain to SOME of us. and it is for them. It is even for people like you who know nothing of the positive work and contributions of Muslim African people to the building of America in many ways. AS FOR MY WORK WITH PRISONERS: My time working with them is spent on character reformation, repentance, the values of being productive members of society - being clean, hard-working, honest, sober, compassionate, responsible, etc. Er, do you have a problem with that also? As for the rest, some of your comments in this post (166) impugn my character, suggest that I am or would be deceptive, etc. which is why I didn't respond to it in the first place. Shame on you, and I'm just, as the young people say, "Not going to go there with you". This discourse has been for the benefit of those who might gain something from it. Those who are sincere and diligent and really want to know the truth will do some digging, and I have told them where to look. I invite you to join them. Until you do, you will not be able to really evaluate much of what I am talking about.IOf you never do, well that's your perogative isn't it?
Good morning,
I have been reading all the posts back and forth with interest. I am glad that you have stayed on the thread to answer some of the posters here. I do have one question though; you have been very polite to me--would you still be as gracious now that I tell you that I am by birth Jewish? Please don't take this as a troll bait question, I can assure you I am quite sincere!
Thank you
Qur'an tells to kill unbelievers in these surahs 9:5- 2:191-2-193-3:118-4:75,76-5:84-4:104-5:33-5:51-5:57-5:80. 81-8:12-8:13-8:14-8:50-8:65-9:23-9:38.39-9:42-9:49-9:73- 9:123-21:109-21:52-27:69.60-31:21-33:60.61
(QUran)-->>Torment to Non-believers->4.56 *Only Islam Acceptable-> 3.85 * No friends from outsiders->3.118 *No friends with Jews, christians->5. 51 * No friends with non believers->4.144, 3.28 * No friends with parents/siblings if non-believers->IX.23 * Fight non-believers->9.123 * Kill non-believers->6.89
Mohammed referred to Blacks as "Pugnosed Raisin Heads". (Sahih Al Bukhary vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256)
oh come on now.......you are just hating everything....if that were so, what the hell are we doing helping the Iraqi's and having that historic vote last week.....everyone on this site was cheering for those Muslims, or did you miss that
A word to the wise..;
When dealing with Bull Shiites or Cow Shiites its best to remember your dealing with Shiites.....
Ha-ha. Boy you really don't know about me do you? Ask my personal friends (and their families): Rabbis Rolando Matalon, Peter Rubenstein, (Emeritus) Ronald Sobel, as well as congregational members of B'Nai Jeshrun, organizational members of Jews for Justice - shall I go on? I'm not into that Anti-Jewish
stuff. If you don't hold it against me that I'm black and Muslim, I won't hold it against you that you're white and Jewish, you see?
peace on earth (one day maybe), good will towards men and women
Beware of decontextualized, poorly Qur'anic texts. Case in point,generally speaking:
1) Those verses you cite were revealed during a time when the Muslims were involved in both defensive and offensive military actions as a faith community, after having been persecuted, attacked, slaughtered, exiled, and put under seige by their enemies. All of the verses you mention regarding "killing unbelievers" are to be seen in that context. "Unbelievers" is a translation of the Arabic word "Kaafiruun", and specifially refers to the Meccan pagans/polytheists who oppressed and murdered the religious minority monotheistic, Muslims because of their beliefs.
2) What is translated in whatever text that you're reading as "friends" is the Arabic word (don't forget that the Qur'an is in Classical Arabic text)"Awliyaa", again more properly translated "protectors" or "protecting friends/patrons, etc". These verses are precautions to the Muslims against turning over supervision and sponsorship of their security and affairs to people of other faiths- especially when they may be hostile towards us (Muslims). Rather we are told to "handle our own business". The same for the verse about parents, and siblings (which you left out), when they are hostile towards us. Again this a general precept. One of the Prophet Muhammad's major sponsors and protectors was his uncle Abdul Mutaalib, who never formally accepted Islam or any other monotheistic faith tradition, but was not hostile towards the faith nor the Cause. Muslims have specifically been told in the Qur'an and in the speech of the Prophet to love, honor and obey our parents and families, even if their faith is different from ours. And on yeah - on that "pug-nosed raisin head" stuff. Speaking as one, let ne say that is again a VERY poor translation from Arabic to English of the Hadith sacred traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), that one almost never sees these days except in materials circulated by detractors of Islam. Actually in both of the examples you mention, the text says "An Ethiopian slave with a head like a raisin". Two things -first you left out the beginning part of the statement, which is "Listen to and obey your ruler, even if..." and then the rest. This is an instruction to the Arabs to put aside ethnic prejudice and follow the commands of those in authority regardless or race or ethnicity. Hm-m-m, sounds good to me (what about you?) And on the "head like a raisin", thats referring to hair texture and maybe forehead and hair (er, when was the last time you looked at the actor Wesley Snipes' head? I was just watching the film "Art of War" on TBS last night, and during a close-up of his head, it looked like a raisin like to me, heh. heh. Oh btw, the text mentions NOTHING about noses. EVERYONE -BEWARE OF DISTORTIONS, PURPOSEFUL OR IGNORANT.
peace
It's a deal, sir. I never hold someone's color against them; it it the blackness of the heart, not the skin, that defines the man. Don't you agree?
Go in peace.
[ Oh btw, the text mentions NOTHING about noses. EVERYONE -BEWARE OF DISTORTIONS, PURPOSEFUL OR IGNORANT. ]
How bout this one....
http://answering-islam.org/Index/L/lying.html
Its on tageyya or however its spelled correctly.. Seems like that is what you doing in this thread.. Its you that are dissimulating not me.. Theres a couple of good threads, on just that, on this forum...
Seems like the camel has got its nose under the tent flap here... meaning you of course..
Ping...thought this may be of interest to you!
Why do I get that feeling too? Why is Talib ignoring the historical facts about Mohammed which have been presented here and elsewhere?
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