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To: hosepipe

Beware of decontextualized, poorly Qur'anic texts. Case in point,generally speaking:
1) Those verses you cite were revealed during a time when the Muslims were involved in both defensive and offensive military actions as a faith community, after having been persecuted, attacked, slaughtered, exiled, and put under seige by their enemies. All of the verses you mention regarding "killing unbelievers" are to be seen in that context. "Unbelievers" is a translation of the Arabic word "Kaafiruun", and specifially refers to the Meccan pagans/polytheists who oppressed and murdered the religious minority monotheistic, Muslims because of their beliefs.
2) What is translated in whatever text that you're reading as "friends" is the Arabic word (don't forget that the Qur'an is in Classical Arabic text)"Awliyaa", again more properly translated "protectors" or "protecting friends/patrons, etc". These verses are precautions to the Muslims against turning over supervision and sponsorship of their security and affairs to people of other faiths- especially when they may be hostile towards us (Muslims). Rather we are told to "handle our own business". The same for the verse about parents, and siblings (which you left out), when they are hostile towards us. Again this a general precept. One of the Prophet Muhammad's major sponsors and protectors was his uncle Abdul Mutaalib, who never formally accepted Islam or any other monotheistic faith tradition, but was not hostile towards the faith nor the Cause. Muslims have specifically been told in the Qur'an and in the speech of the Prophet to love, honor and obey our parents and families, even if their faith is different from ours. And on yeah - on that "pug-nosed raisin head" stuff. Speaking as one, let ne say that is again a VERY poor translation from Arabic to English of the Hadith sacred traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), that one almost never sees these days except in materials circulated by detractors of Islam. Actually in both of the examples you mention, the text says "An Ethiopian slave with a head like a raisin". Two things -first you left out the beginning part of the statement, which is "Listen to and obey your ruler, even if..." and then the rest. This is an instruction to the Arabs to put aside ethnic prejudice and follow the commands of those in authority regardless or race or ethnicity. Hm-m-m, sounds good to me (what about you?) And on the "head like a raisin", thats referring to hair texture and maybe forehead and hair (er, when was the last time you looked at the actor Wesley Snipes' head? I was just watching the film "Art of War" on TBS last night, and during a close-up of his head, it looked like a raisin like to me, heh. heh. Oh btw, the text mentions NOTHING about noses. EVERYONE -BEWARE OF DISTORTIONS, PURPOSEFUL OR IGNORANT.
peace


196 posted on 02/13/2005 6:46:30 AM PST by Imam Talib Abdur-Rashid (REGARDING POSTS 74 and 82: SLANDER AGAINST PROPHET MUHAMMAD)
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To: Imam Talib Abdur-Rashid

[ Oh btw, the text mentions NOTHING about noses. EVERYONE -BEWARE OF DISTORTIONS, PURPOSEFUL OR IGNORANT. ]

How bout this one....
http://answering-islam.org/Index/L/lying.html

Its on tageyya or however its spelled correctly.. Seems like that is what you doing in this thread.. Its you that are dissimulating not me.. Theres a couple of good threads, on just that, on this forum...

Seems like the camel has got its nose under the tent flap here... meaning you of course..


198 posted on 02/13/2005 9:13:51 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been ok'ed me to included some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: Imam Talib Abdur-Rashid; hosepipe
Beware of decontextualized, poorly Qur'anic texts.

Any idea why Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan said “Slavery is a part of Islam, Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam.”?

How could a member of "the Senior Council of Clerics, Saudi Arabia’s highest religious body, a member of the Council of Religious Edicts and Research, the Imam of Prince Mitaeb Mosque in Riyadh, and a professor at Imam Mohamed Bin Saud Islamic University, the main Wahhabi center of learning in the country" interpret it this way?

Will you, Talib, consider setting up another website in your spare time to counter these "lies?"

201 posted on 02/13/2005 4:23:14 PM PST by NexusBlue (AUTHENTIC HISTORY VS. LIES AND PROPOGANDA <- [Tagline on loan from Imam Talib Abdur-Rashid])
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To: Imam Talib Abdur-Rashid
Care to comment on:

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD85905

THE MIDDLE EAST MEDIA RESEARCH INSTITUTE Special Dispatch Series - No. 859

February 8, 2005 No.859
Saudi Preacher Musa Al-Qarni: 'The Jews and Christians are Allah's Enemies... We Ask Allah to Strengthen the Jihad Fighters in Iraq'

During February 5-8, the government of Saudi Arabia is hosting an international conference on c ounter-terrorism, which is being attended by over 50 countries (ranging from Western nations such as the U.S. and UK to State Sponsors of Terrorism such as Iran and Syria) and several international organizations (including the EU, the UN, and the Muslim World League). According to its website, [1] one of the main components of the conference seeks to examine the "origins, sources, culture and ideology of terrorism." [2]

The MEMRI TV Monitor Project has compiled clips from Saudi TV over the past several months, [3] which include Saudi clerics preaching hatred of Christians and Jews, and calling for Jihad against the West. To view this compilation, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=525.

As the preparations and registration for the conference occurred over the past week, Saudi government-controlled TV has continued to incite to Jihad.

The following are excerpts from a February 3, 2005 IQRA TV program with Saudi cleric Musa Al-Qarni; [4] to view the clip, visit www.memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=523:


'The Jews and Christians are Allah's Enemies'

Al-Qarni: "The uproar and the chaos that we see today in the human race – the killing, the acts of aggression, the rape, the robbery, and the disgrace of honor – what causes this is that the banners which are hoisted high are those of the Jews, the Christians, and other religions and faiths, and not the banner of 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's Messenger.'

"Let's have a look at what is written in the Koran. What position must we adopt towards Allah's enemies? Is it the position we have adopted? First of all, we must be aware of the fact that at present we see that [the West] doesn't want us even to say the words 'Allah's enemies.' They don't want us to say that the Jews and the Christians are Allah's enemies. They don't want us to say that the Jews and the Christians are the enemies of the Muslims and the enemies of Islam.

"This is fixed and established in the Koran and in the tradition…

"If this is so, if this is something fixed, how is it that we find in the things that we say, among our children, our own flesh and blood, among Muslims, people who are in denial of these things, who deny that there is a great enmity between Muslims and non-Muslims? It is true that we say that Islam's fundamental approach is that of mercy, and that the fundamental principle of Islam is [that it is a] mercy for human beings. But [it is for] he who submits to Allah's religion and extends his hand to allow Allah's religion to spread all over the earth and to make Allah's word supreme – it is toward him that religion is merciful. However, whoever fights against Allah's religion, and fights those who love Allah, distorts the image of Islam and the Muslims and does so much to weaken Islam…

"Let's take a real-life example. Today, the Jews are occupying the Muslims' lands, raping their women, killing their children, and destroying their houses – are these acts being perpetrated by the Muslims or by the Jews?"

Interviewer: "By the Jews, as anyone with eyes can see. This is clear to the entire world…"

Al-Qarni: "OK, and we see that at present anyone who speaks about the Jews is accused of antisemitism, and people are brought to trial for this. OK. Are the Jews not making great efforts to make us quote the Koranic verses proving that they are enemies of the revelation and showing their base character, their lowly character traits, [relating] what they did to the prophets and messengers and their long history of acts of treachery, deceit, conspiracy and treason? They are making great efforts in this…"

'The Terrorists are These Jews and Christians'

Interviewer: "You shouldn't blame them for this. We are the ones to blame if we agree to change the Koran and the tradition to suit them."

Al-Qarni: "The terrorists are these Jews and Christians who implement these policies through the use of force, repression, and tyranny, and to this end make use of planes, tanks, and all manner of deadly weapons."

Interviewer: "Aisha's second question [is about whether] Islam spread by the sword. They always say that Islam spread by the sword. How should we respond to them?"

Al-Qarni: "First of all, we ask by what means is the freedom that the U.S. wants spread? The freedom that it wants now to market?"

Interviewer: "Through missiles and bombs…"

Al-Qarni: "Through B-50s, bombs that the international community has forbidden, hundred of thousands of armed soldiers – this is how freedom has spread."

Interviewer: "And we don't see any freedom. All we see afterwards is subjugation…"

Al-Qarni: "At any rate, if we return to our discussion of the heart of the matter… First of all, we must realize that Allah obligated us to disseminate this religion all over the globe. And first, it should be spread through outreach and calling people to Allah's word, through pleasing words, gently, and through good deeds. Through letting people hear Allah's words and showing them Islam. However, if we run up against someone who opposes this path and attempts to obstruct the spread of the upright religion and the light, and to obstruct their reaching others – in this case it is a duty to fight such a person. And Allah said: 'Fight them until there is no more strife and Allah's religion reigns supreme.'

"We don't agree with those who disavow this completely and say that the religion [of Islam] doesn't use the sword. No. Islam uses the sword when there is no other alternative. Therefore wisdom, as the religious authorities say, consists in utilizing each thing in its proper place. If there is need for the sword, then it is wise to use the sword, and if the occasion requires kind words and outreach, then it is wise to utilize them."

'We Ask Allah to Strengthen … the Jihad Fighters in Iraq … Against Their Enemies the Jews and the Christians'

"We ask Allah to strengthen the spirits of the Jihad fighters in Iraq, and to help them against their enemies, the Jews and the Christians.

"Likewise, I emphasize that the Jihad that the Muslims are fighting in Iraq in order to repel the enemy aggressor, the Jews and the Christians, who are attacking land and honor – I emphasize that this Jihad is legitimate Jihad, Jihad for Allah's sake, and it is considered defense of Muslim countries, their lands and their honor. The doubts that are raised against this Jihad are not correct and are out of place." [5]




202 posted on 02/13/2005 4:25:50 PM PST by NexusBlue (AUTHENTIC HISTORY VS. LIES AND PROPOGANDA <- [Tagline on loan from Imam Talib Abdur-Rashid])
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To: Imam Talib Abdur-Rashid
Comments?

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD86005

E-Mail this document
E-Mail this document

THE MIDDLE EAST MEDIA RESEARCH INSTITUTE
Special Dispatch Series - No. 860
February 8, 2005 No.860
MEMRI TV Monitor Project - Special Coverage of the Saudi Counter-Terrorism Conference and Jihad on Saudi TV

The Saudi government is currently hosting an international counter-terrorism conference, scheduled from February 5-8. The conference is being attended by over 50 countries and several international organizations.

Since the advent of the TV Monitor Project, MEMRI has been monitoring incitement to Jihad on Saudi Arabian TV. These clips have been archived at http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S5&P1=113.

During the past week leading up to and during the opening of the conference, Saudi government-controlled TV has continued to air programs and shows that incite their viewers to jihad and hatred of Christians and Jews. One example is a poem read in a pre-conference meeting in honor of Saudi Defense Minister Prince Sultan, who was in attendance, which was written and read by Saudi poet Mash'al Al-Harithi. The poem makes the claim that Osama bin Laden "was sent by the Jews." [1]

Other shows this week devoted to the conference have also blamed Jews for being the source of terrorism, including a TV interview on Saudi Channel 1 with Saudi researcher Suheila Hammad, who blamed Jews and "neo-cons" for terrorism. [2]

MEMRI has produced a compilation of clips from Saudi and Arab TV channels dealing with Saudi Arabia and Jihad. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=525.

The following are links to and descriptions of various other shows from Saudi TV:


Saudi Crown Prince Abdallah's Speech at the Conference

Saudi Crown Prince Abdallah bin Abd Al-Aziz gave a speech at the opening of the counter-terrorism conference. The speech aired on Channel 1 of Saudi TV on February 5, 2005. To view the clip, visit

http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=521.

Saudi Cleric Musa Al-Qarni: Spreading Islam by the Sword is, at Times, Justified

An interview with Saudi cleric Musa Al-Qarni was aired on Iqra TV on February 3, 2005. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=523.

Saudi Researcher Suheila Hammad: The Jews and Neo-Cons are Responsible for Terror in Saudi Arabia

Saudi journalist Suheila Hammad was interviewed on Channel 1 of Saudi TV on February 3, 2005. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=522.

Poem Fetes Saudi Minister of Defense Prince Sultan: The Jews are behind bin Laden

Saudi Defense Minister Prince Sultan was serenaded with a poem at the opening of the Saudi counter-terrorism conference. The reading was aired on Saudi TV Channel 1 on February 1, 2005. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=518.

Saudi Terrorist Arrested in Iraq: I was Motivated by Pictures I Saw on Al-Jazeera TV and on the Internet

An interview with Basem Saleh Jamil Kassar, a Saudi terrorist who was arrested in Iraq. The interview was aired by Al-Fayhaa TV on January 22, 2005. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=503.

Saudi Cleric Sheik Sa'd Al-Breik: Jihad is Justified in Iraq, Not in the U.S.

An interview with Saudi cleric Sa'd Al-Breik was aired on Channel 1 of Saudi TV on January 27, 2005. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=516.

Saudi Cleric 'Aed Al-Qarni: Guiding the 'Brothers of Apes and Pigs' to Islam Tops Killing Them

A lecture by Saudi cleric 'Aed Al-Qarni was aired on Iqra TV on January 9, 2005. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=474.

Saudi Cleric 'Aed Al-Qarni: Throats Must be Slit and Skulls Must be Shattered - This is the Path to Victory

A lecture by Saudi cleric 'Aed Al-Qarni was aired on Iqra TV on December 26, 2004. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=445

Saudi Cleric Al-Fawzan: Jihad in Iraq an Individual Duty Incumbent Upon Iraqis

Saudi Cleric Al-Fawzan was interviewed by Prof. 'Abd Al-'Aziz Al-Fawzan, of Al-Imam University, Saudi Arabia, on Al-Majd TV on November 21, 2004. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=375.

Saudi Terrorist Plays with His Children

Footage of a Saudi terrorist playing with his children and with guns was captured in his home after he was killed by Saudi security forces, and was aired on Al-Ikhbariya TV on February 5, 2005. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=524.

Cleric Muhammad Hassan on the Heroes of Fallujah and Suicide Children

An interview with Cleric Muhammad Hassan was aired on Al-Majd TV on November 15, 2004. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=358.

Saudi Al-Majd TV Host Hisham Khreisat: Ramadan is the Month of Jihad

A monologue by Al-Majd TV host Hisham Khreisat on Ramadan was aired on Al-Majd on October 17, 2004. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=290.

Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef ibn Abd Al-Aziz on Terrorism in Saudi Arabia

An address by Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef ibn Abd Al-Aziz to members of the Saudi security forces was aired on Saudi TV Channel 1 on October 26, 2004. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=308.

Saudi Cleric Musa Al-Qarni: Education to Jihad and Conquering the World Not Sufficient

An interview with Cleric Musa Al-Qarni was aired on Iqra TV on October 29, 2004. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=339.

Terrorists Tell of Their Al-Qa'ida Experience on Saudi TV

Interviews with a Saudi Al-Qa'ida terrorist detained in Saudi Arabia were aired on Saudi TV Channel 1 on September 21, 2004. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=274.

Saudi Professor Ahmad bin Rashed Criticizes Arab Media for Lack of Support of Suicide Bombers

An interview with Dr. Ahmad bin Rashed bin Said, professor of political communications at King Saud University, was aired on Al-Majd on August 18, 2004. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=254.

A Cleric on Official Saudi TV: Al-Qa'ida Not the Main Perpetrator of 9/11

Saudi Cleric Dr. Sa'd bin 'Abdallah Al-Breik spoke about Al-Qa'ida's role in 9/11 on Saudi Arabia's Channel 1 on August 16, 2004. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=201.

Legal Advisor to Saudi Justice Ministry Sheik Abiqan: What's Happening in Iraq Is Not Jihad at All

Sheik 'Abd Al-Muhsin bin Nasser Al-'Abiqan, legal advisor for the Saudi Justice Ministry, spoke against terrorism on his weekly religious rulings show on the Saudi channel MBC TV on July 31, 2004. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=178.

Saudi Prince Khaled Al-Faysal on the Cultural Roots of Saudi Terrorism

Saudi Prince Khaled Al-Faysal, governor of 'Asir region in Saudi Arabia, was interviewed by Al-Arabiya TV on July 14, 2004 and talked about the ideological extremism that controls Saudi Arabia's educational system. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=153.

Liberal Saudi Journalist Turki Hamad on the Cultural Roots of Terrorism in Saudi Arabia

Liberal Saudi journalist Turki Hamad was interviewed on Dubai TV on June 27, 2004 by another well known Saudi journalist, Daoud Al-Shiriyan. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=130.

Saudi Sheik Saleh Al-Sidlan: The Terrorists Distorted the Religion of Islam

In his weekly religious ruling show on Saudi TV Channel 1 on June 23, 2004, Sheik Saleh bin Ghanem Al-Sidlaen blasted those responsible for recent terror attacks in Saudi Arabia. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=131.

Saudi Crown Prince Abdallah bin Abd Al-Aziz Gives Saudi Terrorists One Last Chance

On June 23, 2004, Channel 1 of Saudi TV aired a statement read by Crown Prince Abdallah bin Abd Al-Aziz on behalf King Fahd, in which he gave terrorists one last chance to surrender and repent. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=121.

Saudi Cleric, Dr. Muhammad Bin Suleiman Al-Mani'i, Forbids Killing Jews and Christians on Saudi TV

Saudi cleric Dr. Muhammad Bin Suleiman Al-Mani'i hosted a talk show on Channel 1 of Saudi TV which aired on June 20, 2004, in which he spoke out against killing Jews and Christians. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=116.

Saudi Sheikh Said Al-Qahtani on the Launching of Jihad in Islam

The Saudi-based religious TV channel Iqra TV conducted an interview on June 5, 2004 with Saudi Sheikh Said Al-Qahtani, who discussed Jihad in Islam. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=57.

Saudi Sheikh Dr. Ahmad bin Abd Al-Latif Allows Prayers for the Annihilation of Jews and Christians

Saudi Sheikh Ahmad Bin Abd Al-Latif, professor at Um Al-Qura University, appeared on a religious ruling program aired by Channel 1 of Saudi TV on May 24, 2004. During the show, a viewer asked whether prayers by imams in Saudi mosques for Allah to annihilate Jews and Christians are religiously allowed. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=87.

Saudi Sheikh Abdallah Al-Muslih on Suicide Bombings

On the May 20, 2004 episode of his Iqra TV show, Sheikh Al-Muslih brought evidence from early Islam to support his claim that while blowing oneself up is permitted on enemy land, it is forbidden in Muslim countries. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=93.

Saudi Crown Prince Abdallah: 'Zionism is Behind Terrorist Attacks in the Kingdom… I am 95% Sure of that'

In reaction to the May 1, 2004 terrorist shooting in the offices of an oil contractor in Yunbu', Saudi Arabia, in which seven people, among them two Americans, were killed, Saudi Crown Prince Abdallah ibn Abd Al-'Aziz stated that "the Zionists" were to blame. His statement was broadcasted on Saudi TV Channel 1. To view this clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=52.


[1] Saudi TV Channel 1, February 1, 2005. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=518.

[2] Saudi TV Channel 1, February 3, 2005. To view the clip, visit http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=522.


203 posted on 02/13/2005 4:29:20 PM PST by NexusBlue (AUTHENTIC HISTORY VS. LIES AND PROPOGANDA <- [Tagline on loan from Imam Talib Abdur-Rashid])
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