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Even Snow's show had a man on whose last words were this. (Paraphrasing) If you are going to have people come out and make accusations about Kerry's patriotism at the very least they should have served aboard the same boat, these guys were NOT EVEN in the same DIVISION.

But Snow had supporters of the Swift boat veterans on, as well. Contrast that with O'Reilly, the night before, or Shemp Smith, yesterday, who only took and only aired positions AGAINST the Swift boat veterans position.

Bronze star incident, did Kerry's boat detonate a mine

I don't know. The story has been published both ways.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1132586/posts <-- Two versions here
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061603.shtml <-- Boston Globe online (no registration required, long read, worth the time)

"A couple of weeks later, on March 13, 1969, a mine detonated near Kerry's boat, wounding Kerry in the right arm, according to the citation written by Zumwalt. Guerrillas started firing on the boats from the shoreline. Kerry then realized that he had lost overboard a Green Beret who is identified only as 'Rassman.'"

Here's an interesting tidbit from the Globe article ...

" Kerry's early departure meant that he was leaving behind a crew that had suffered through many bloody battles with him. Worried that crew members would be killed, he arranged for them to receive a safer assignment. When one crew member, Medeiros, tried to stay, Kerry "came and talked to me and said, `I really would like you to go. ... I'd like to know you are safe, or safer."'"

Do you have a link for the first affadavit?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1186614/posts <-- Includes links to all affidavit pages

There's no retraction, the Globe stands by its story.

The Globe is "standing by its story?" I don't think so. They are saying they quoted Elliott accurately, and they may have. But saying the Globe is "standing by its story" is like saying "Elliott retracted his July 21 affidavit." Either statement is demonstrably false.

You are describing the 'Bronze Star' incedent?

I checked the basics of Kerry's medals. They line up as:

• Dec 2, 1968 - Purple Heart (Mortar fragment?)
• Feb 20, 1969 - Purple heart (5000 lbs of rice in a sampan, 14,000 rounds of .50 caliber expended by the boat crews)
• Feb 28, 1969 - Silver Star (Citation recites routing a score of Viet Cong by storming the beach.)
• Mar 13, 1969 - Bronze Star and Purple Heart (the mine in the river incident, pulling Rassman from the water, etc. The Bronze Star citation is covered by two letters from the Navy, 7 years apart. One signed by Zumwalt, the other by Lehman.)

I always thought that to be "slander" a statement had to be false.

Correct.

Basics of Defamation Law <-- Mash here.

Google "elements slander" and you'll find quite a few resources.

Tony Snow covered for O'Reilly last night. I did not watch. How did Snow handle the vets?

I didn't watch either, but saw some comments on threads, here, while the show was playing. I have the impression that Tony gave the matter a fair showing - open minded, need more time for facts to emerge, that sort of attitude.

I think that incident had a star (I think it was the Bronze Star, the Silver Star being for chasing a Viet Cong and dispatching him). Kerry was also awarded a Purple Heart as a result of the mining incident.

Obey, you idiot. The only thing the bishop is forcing on you is denial of the scarament of communion. The fact that you twist that into making you vote a certain way shows you to be mentally disconnected.

The AP fell for it, because they wanted too. AP is a bunch of "Chicken littles".

Watch how fast this erroneous report is corrected. Compare the velocity of correction with the (still uncorrected) report that Swift boat veteran Elliott has retraceted ANY part of his July 21 affidavit (he has not retracted any part of it, never did).

It has to be a hoax.

Apparantly, it is. And the AP fell for it. HAA-HA!!!!

Has Chernin lost his mind?

It's a matter of definition of "lost mind," IMO. Chernin supports and advocates "liberal" (someday we'll take back that word, really he's a "progessive" in the most vile sense of the word) form of government. He likes forced income re-distribution and central/micro managment of human activity. He is an elitist as well.

Wow. That AZ Star piece sure is a hit on the Swift Boat veterans. The author of the piece puts up unrelated smears (Colson's involvement in Watergate), and outright lies about the substance of Elliott's affidavits.

The media are truly enemies of the Republic.

I wonder why the paper didn't print the full text of the affidavits? That would be very informative for the readers.

I've read them. It took less than 2 minutes. The first affidavit is one page in length, the second is two pages.

At least the story is not going away quietly. It (the story) needs to be brought clearly into the open, and I have the utmost respect for the Swift boat veterans, especially those who are stepping forward now.

Elliott is in a box as he had to know from witnesses if the scene happened and whether it rose to the level of valor before recommending the medal.

Not necessarily. There are records to support the issuing of the medal. Elliott can't release those records, and by his demeanor, he is not concerned about the release, either way. He says Kerry lied, and he stands by that. Either the story in the Boston Globe book is true, or the story in the paperwork supporting the issuance of the medal are true. Can't be both.

Kerry can clear this up by having all of his service records made public.

I haven't seen where Elliot has stated that the Boston Globe reporter lied, or that Elliot has clarified any misunderstandings. He needs to do this.

Mr. Elliott's affidavit of August 6, 2004 says that he was misquoted in the Boston Globe article by Kranish (he doesn't say Kranish lied, but he does say Kerry lied, heheheh). As for "misunderstandings" that Kranish may have had, regarding Kerry's own story that Kerry shot a fleeing Viet Cong, Kranish's affidavit of August 6, 2004 reafirms that he (Elliott) has no personal knowledge of the shooting, but relies on an account in a Boston Globe book (again, supposedly Kerry's own story) for his belief.

Long story short, Elliott did all of what you say he should do. You just missed it. You missed it because the media is still busy lying.

They "googled" after 4? Why not visit the Swift Vets Website too?

I agree we can make a difference, but Fox News can make a bigger one, and they are the professionals. If they can't take justified criticism, they are girlie men.

Hey, thanks! I've been busy -- still am, actually. This story really catches my fancy though.

Thanks for the "howdy," good to see you too.

Tony Snow said he was filling in for O'Reilly today.

You know, I just assumed I was answering a question about the radio show -- oops! I know Tony is on the TV slot, I have no idea who did the radio show today.

Now we need to get that into the hands of the media, including FNC!

Dollars to donuts, that affidavit was faxed to every major television network's news bureaus, radio stations, and newspapers shortly after it was signed. The Swift Boat Vets seem darn well organized to me.

When the media says "Oh, we didn't know!" -- could be they are telling the truth, but then again, maybe they aren't. I for one, NEVER give the media the benefit of the doubt.

Now, if lots of people start sending it to the media, the media will have a measure of how well known the fact is, and can be forced to run it, in order to keep "market share" and influence. Can't be found out as liars, that would harm the ability to influence public opinion.