[Podkayne]

"Rolling back the hands of time".....

This is going to go over like a lead balloon in my parish. My daughter is an "altar girl" and has no inclination to become a deaconess or priestess or a marine. They can't get enough boys to serve and the girls are more punctual and reliable. I think you would have to make serving mandatory and institute a military style draft to get enough boys to serve. All are edgy about the funky priest Monahan who raped his nephew for years and is now the target of a lawsuit agains tht ediocese of KC-St.JO. Go figure.

Now that the pope is frail the "powers behind the throne" see their big chance to "take over"

Wonder what else will be coming out of the Vatican.

Next thing you know we will all be wearing hats and veils again.

This sounds like the work of "silly old poofs" who think they rule the world.

[ArrogantBustard]

My daughter is an "altar girl"
I'm very sorry to learn that.

They can't get enough boys to serve
Man hating feminist out-of-habit "sisters" don't want to get boys to serve.

girls are more punctual and reliable
Garbage.

Wonder what else will be coming out of the Vatican.
All manner of good things. Offering the Mass according to the rubrics? Putting Tabernacles back in the center of the Sanctuary where they belong? An end to the army of "eucharistic ministers"? A correct and complete translation of the Order of the Mass?

One can hope.

[Blzbba]

I don't understand why the Vatican and some traditional Catholics are so afraid of altar girls either.

It's either fear, ignorance, or a sense of overblown importance. Altar girls are harmless modernizations of the Mass and nothing more.

The Vatican's continued insistence that women are 2nd-class citizens (the only explanation for their abhorrence of women taking more-active roles in the Church) will cause them great harm in the future as more and more Catholic women wake up and smell the coffee.

[francisr]

this whole thread reeks - since Vatican II the Church has been on a downward slide - with a great assist from those who needed a 'progressive Jesus'. a "Jesus who loves me just like I am" - sorry - all of parables of the Gospel say that it just is not so - there is a price, a sacrifice to be made for the "Pearl of great price" - the Church I grew up in is gone - but the hate goes on, the destruction goes on, the need of the laity for jazz mass, clown mass, dance mass - anything but actual prayer, sacrifice and adoration - goes on . And the results are on the front page of the press and on threads like this - IMHO

[MudPuppy]

I'm in Arlington (VA) Diocese. There are no altar girls allowed here and it's a beautiful thing. There is never a shortage of boys - as a matter of fact usually 3 boys serve per Sunday Mass (of which there are 5 offered at my parish). The boys are well trained in their duties and wear a cassock with surplice. It's terrific.
I would revolt if they let girls serve.

[all4one]

"Now that the pope is frail the "powers behind the throne" see their big chance to "take over"

Everytime I see how frail the pope has become I think this as well. I also wonder who is putting out the statements that "the pope will not step down". The only people who stand to benefit from the pope not stepping down, are the powers behind the throne. They could not procure their agenda if another pope were to be chosen.

[TxBec]

Next thing you know we will all be wearing veils again.

Having finally attended a Latin mass in Austin recently, I wouldn't mind that at all. I've already been looking for a mantilla online and I am really looking forward to driving down again. I think it is a wonderful tradition. It's sad that it has been all but swept away..

[Clintons a commie]

Next thing you know we will all be wearing hats and veils again.

St. Paul said that women should cover their heads in Church, and this was practiced in East and West from the foundations of Christianity until the wonderful "renewal" of the sixties.

You sound like a "silly young goof" who thinks she knows better than the collected wisdom of all of the saints, Church Fathers and Popes.

[NYer]

They can't get enough boys to serve and the girls are more punctual and reliable.

Probably because the parish allows altar girls. We have them in my diocese as well. Once they allowed the girls to serve, the number of boys interested in serving declined immediately.

[miss marmelstein]

No, they just rule the Church.

As for altar girls being reliable, the last time I saw one, she was running about the altar so much, the priest had to rebuke her. This, of course, was in between the congregation applauding itself, swaying to bad music and lining up in hordes to receive Holy Communion from a man in a light blue leisure suit. Yuck!

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Next thing you know we will all be wearing hats and veils again.

Why not? Maybe you could wear gloves and dresses again too, so that the appearance of going to our most important meeting of the day or week - to meet and receive the Lord Jesus - is outwardly shown.

The hair of a woman is given to her as her glory. Any woman knows that her long hair is one of her most remarkable and attractive features.

"But if a woman nourish her hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering." (1 Cor. 11.15).

But in Church, we are there to glorify God, not to show off ourselves, as so many seem to think today. So women should veil their head in Church, as a part of their overall modest attire that St. Paul lays out elsewhere:

"In like manner, women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire: But, as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works." (1 Timothy 2.9-10)

Dressing up and showing off feminine beauty and glory is fine OUTSIDE of Church, not within, when all the glory is God's.

Its funny that Catholic women will abide the rule of veiling and modest dress for meeting the Pope, but not for meeting Christ in the Eucharist.

I'm going to ping several other Catholic women on this for their remarks.

[harbingr]

May I suggest your perusing the following monumental work; Chapter II of the book, Revolution and Counter-Revolution', by Brazilian Catholic author, P. Carrea de Oliveira:...

The Apogee and The Crisis of the Third Revolution

This chapter discusses the Vatican Ostpolitik and the 'smoke of Satan' that has entered the Church...

The main web site is:...

Tradition Family, and Property

[BlessedBeGod]

Next thing you know we will all be wearing hats and veils again.

I, and a number of others who go to Mass where I go, do wear a veil.

[dangus]

Sorry, but I gotta disagree with you. At every parish I've been to that allows altar girls, they quickly become almost *exclusively* altar girls. The outfits (cassoks?) look like dresses to the modern adolscent, and the only way to make it culturally tolerable for boys to participate is to make it a male institutions.

Its a choice: all girls or all boys. And seeing how the role of altar server was originally to be performed by a deacon or priest (only going lay as the deaconate and priesthood declined), it makes sense to be all boys.

[Antoninus]

They can't get enough boys to serve and the girls are more punctual and reliable.

That is beyond bogus. In our indult parish, there are between 4 and 8 altar boys available for EACH MASS. Why? Because the parents and priests of the parish actively encourage boys to become altar boys. It's a mark of honor, not a chore. Meanwhile, at the NO parish that I often attend, the altar girls obviously rule the roost. Out of the 20 or so altar servers, perhaps 5 or 6 are boys. Like it or not, boys at that age don't want to be associated with anything run by the girls. It becomes something "sissified."

I think you would have to make serving mandatory and institute a military style draft to get enough boys to serve.

Baloney. A faithful, manly priest who actively recruits boys (and only boys) and involves their parents will attract a good number. I've seen it happen.

Next thing you know we will all be wearing hats and veils again.

Heaven forbid. BTW, there's nothing more attractive than my wife if a veil....

This sounds like the work of "silly old poofs" who think they rule the world.

No, those would be the silly old poofs who insist on having girls prancing around the altars. The priests who are real men know that altar boys are the future priests of the Church. Several of the former altar boys at our indult parish are now in seminary. Can you say that about any of the servers at your parish?

[passive1]

Regarding altar girls: (1). Surveys over the years have found that as much as 85% of Catholic priests began as altar boys. One can gauge the commitment of a parish to priestly vocations based on their commitment to altar boys. (2). We are witnessing the feminization of altar servers as more and more boys view the flood of girls descending on this service at the altar. (3). I believe that there are only two dioceses left in the U.S. that do not permit girl altar servers, one of which includes the diocese of Arlington, VA, whose new bishop permitted girl altar servers when he was a bishop in Ogdensburg, NY. (4). In my parish our pastor does NOT permit girl altar servers and there is not a lack of boys to serve; if a parish really desired priestly vocations, it would be easy to find boys to serve.

Therefore, the lack of altar boys simply reflects the fact that most parishes place equal rights for girls above the need for priestly vocations that are often influenced by serving at the altar.

[TradicalRC]

Hats and veils! Tell me it isn't so! The horror...the horror...

[RaginCajunTrad]

"Next thing you know we will all be wearing hats and veils again."

My wife, two of my grown daughters, and their daughters were veils and/or hat. It was their doing, not anyone else's. They like it and think it is proper.

My wife is very offended at the suggestion of some that she, as a woman, may need to hear "inclusive-language" translations. She always felt she was included when she heard "mankind" and other such words that have been deemed to be "exclusive" or "discriminatory."

[ventana]

Well, I would much rather see my fellow concelebrants wearing belly shirts, cutoffs, and flip flops then a decent hat or veil. Though I must say, the black gentleman I exchange hellos with at my local church looks terribly dapper and refined in his hat and suit. And the black church ladies at the pentecostal church across the street look marvelous in their pretty hats and pastel suits. V's wife.

[Possenti]

At 33, I'm hardly a "silly old poof", but the things you cite as disagreeable to you are what I look for in a church: Tradition.

- Not a social club or some kind of a feminist-inspired social experiment. Contrary to what many believe these days, a "church" is not all about the individual - it's all about (or supposed to be) about God.

[GOP_Thug_Mom]

taking off the veils was never discussed at Vatican II--a newspaper made it up. So, this "post-V2" girl has decided to don her veil! (actually, I had to start making them) It sure helps keep you focused on God, and makes it difficult to turn away from the altar at Mass... :-)
Oh, and we changed churches when my sons were 6 and 4--I didn't want them getting the idea that it was okay for girls to prance (maybe "slouch" is a better term) around the altar. We found a wonderful, orthodox Church, and I've even started teaching them (and myself) Latin, so they can serve at any of the Masses when the time comes!