No Clapping, Dancing at Mass, Vatican to Warn

Reuters ^ | Tue, Sep 23, 2003 | Philip Pullella

[presidio9]

No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.

Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.

According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.

The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.

If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.

According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."

The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.

Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.

Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.

The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."

Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.

Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.

The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.

The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.

It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.

Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.

"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.

[presidio9]

Womyn" are among the least of God's people. Whatsoever you do unto them, you do unto Jesus. If you treat them with contempt and of little worth, you are treating Jesus the same way. That's how I see it. That's how I lived it.

In that case, I invite you to tell your Catholic female therapist to take a hike and get to know the Blessed Mother and her role in the Church a little better. Catholics revere women more than any religion because we recognize the fundamental differences.

[conservonator]

Care to share an example from real life?

Ever been to a "dry" county down south?

[Clintons a commie]

Next thing you know we will all be wearing hats and veils again.

St. Paul said that women should cover their heads in Church, and this was practiced in East and West from the foundations of Christianity until the wonderful "renewal" of the sixties.

You sound like a "silly young goof" who thinks she knows better than the collected wisdom of all of the saints, Church Fathers and Popes.

[Petronski]

Yes, some do. Woe be unto them as well.

[Desdemona]

Earthly glory is nothing.

Mother Angelica this morning on EWTN said exactly the same thing. They were talking about Padre Pio who was treated just horribly by his own bishop. And here is a man who did nothing but suffer in his life, who now has been Beatified.

[TxBec]

We still get the girls in tanktops, flip flops, and minis. Before each Mass, there is an announcement to please turn off your cell phones and pagers. (I don't think this should even be an issue..common sense tells you to turn it off.. but..) This past Sunday, during the Homily, someone's phone went off and our priest had to say, "Folks, turn OFF your cell phones.. this is a Church!" Someone on here said something about the "clock being turned back"....I'm all for it!

[NYer]

They can't get enough boys to serve and the girls are more punctual and reliable.

Probably because the parish allows altar girls. We have them in my diocese as well. Once they allowed the girls to serve, the number of boys interested in serving declined immediately.

[Skooz]

Ever been to a "dry" county down south?

Yeah. Went to college in one. Spent most of my college days drunk in one. What's your point?

[Ann Archy]

I thought "catholic" meant "as one". I sure don't feel "as one" when some are standing, some are kneeling, some are sitting.

[smith288]

We celebrate Gods sacrifice and Jesus' revival...not his death. Hence the joy. Lets think back to the disciples reaction to the Lord. He has risen and Oh what a fantastic time!

[Aliska]

You seem to care only about the power, honor and glory that the Priests get

I didn't even notice it until I read a book about a nun who crawled up some stairs on her knees, kissing every step, because a priest had just walked up those stairs. It made me almost sick to my stomach and a light went on.

Yes, I now resent all the fawning over the priests. You see it all the time if you choose to open your eyes to it.

[fml]

See ya.

[smith288]

You really should go over to another thread where you might just know what they are talking about.

How very Christian... Bless you my Brother in Christ (rolling eyes)

[Ann Archy]

The Life Teen masses are truly revolting. As the kids age, they will expect to be ENTERTAINED at Mass.....sad.

[all4one]

Actually I am "very" Catholic. I have 12 years of Catholic education. And I graduated from a Catholic University. Had a Catholic wedding mass. Our family attends mass every Sunday. Our family serves meals to the homeless via our Catholic ministries during the holidays. Shall I go on....how about you???

I was merely stating how the Vatican makes statements everytime the pope is shown in his current frail health that he "will not step down". This is how the Vatican states this info to the media.

[Desdemona]

You know, there are Sundays I wish there was a stack of shawls in the Narthex and one usher would just walk around the church before Mass handing them out to the girls who don't know how to dress. Maybe they'd get the message.

At St. Peter's they're really tough about it. Really, it's not that hard to dress decently even in the heat of summer.

[presidio9]

Popes don't step down. You must not be a Catholic or you would know this.

The following Popes have abdicated:

Marcellinus in 304 A.D.;
Liberius in 366 A.D.;
Benedict IX in 1045 A.D.;
Gregory VI in 1046 A.D.;
St. Celestine V in 1294 A.D.; and
Gregory XII in 1415 A.D.

[Ann Archy]

Go back and read your postabout controlling impulses....talk about women having POWER!! Don;'t you see???

You wouldn't probably need your therapist if you went back to Church.

[Aliska]

It bothers me when this role is belittled, when it is the most honored and most important in anyone's life. Those of us who believe this are belittled regularly by those who don't. Christ honored his mother and motherhood, why shouldn't we?

Because it leaves a spiritual vacuum when men and other women treat you like you are only good for that which is the way it is.

Why don't the men nurture the children religiously? Why is this role expected primarily of the woman?

[american colleen]

Without the Resurrection there would have been no point... but without the Sacrifice on the cross, there would have been no Resurrection. As Catholics, we don't separate one from the other. Plus there's that whole thing about "This is My body which will be given up for you" "do this in memory of me" thing... but that's another thread altoghether!