No Clapping, Dancing at Mass, Vatican to Warn

Reuters ^ | Tue, Sep 23, 2003 | Philip Pullella

[presidio9]

No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.

Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.

According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.

The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.

If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.

According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."

The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.

Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.

Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.

The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."

Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.

Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.

The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.

The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.

It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.

Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.

"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.

[Aliska]

"Womyn" are among the least of God's people. Whatsoever you do unto them, you do unto Jesus. If you treat them with contempt and of little worth, you are treating Jesus the same way. That's how I see it. That's how I lived it.

[smith288]

They also seem to be driven by a fear that somewhere, someone is having fun.

Thats me...You need to get off the internet...its the devil. Yep...

We all hate fun...;) haha

Those who are negative towards Jews are bad witnesses. Thats all. They need training on how to spreads Gods love, not through guilt. The purpose of a Christian is to let others know of God. Some may take your words to heart and look for Christ, other will not. There is no failure in this duty other than staying mute about Jesus Christ to those who do not know. Focus was put on the Jewish person as they do not recognize Jesus as the savior... So attention is placed on them. Pressure is a bad sales pitch, though, so they failed.

Sorry you have gotten such a bad taste in your mouth about Southen Baptists, but our Sundays are not about guilting attenders into giving money or being a better person. Gods existence in our hearts is what drives us to a more Christ-like lifestyle. Often we fail. But joy is not forbidden.

[My back yard]

This is good news I think. This kind of thing has been getting out of control, and needed reigning in. I was at Easter Mass last year and there were cell phones ringing, teenage girls in tank tops and flip flops. There were baptisms during the service, and the 'priest' was telling standup jokes while he baptised them, and the '''audience''' was applauding his humor. I felt more like I was attending a David Letterman taping rather than Mass on Easter Sunday!!

[Ann Archy]

You really should go over to another thread where you might just know what they are talking about.

[Desdemona]

It would suit me if it drove away all those who think women aren't worthy of "power, honor and glory" like they lavish on men in high places. Your use of the word "womyn" shows your contempt for them as is evidenced by many posters on this forum, including even women who march lock-step with the men.

It would suit me if it would be recognized that there is no more important job in the church than the raising of the next generation. That was a task entrusted to women over the centuries and they performed quite well in that capacity. Mother was the one place of great honor in the New Testament. Christ gave His mother to a diciple.

It bothers me when this role is belittled, when it is the most honored and most important in anyone's life. Those of us who believe this are belittled regularly by those who don't. Christ honored his mother and motherhood, why shouldn't we?

[american colleen]

"True Liturgical Reform in the Cathoic Church in the United States will only begin when the Last Guitar is smashed over the head of the Last Liturgist."

LOL! Andrew Greeley... can't live with him, can't live without him! Sometimes the guy is right and very funny.

[Petronski]

I have the greatest respect and love for women and womanhood, mind you, but 'womyn' are self-identified feminists, for whom I bear nothing but contempt.

[Consort]

I suppose playing the Jews Harp is out, as well. How about toe-tapping and playing the spoons?

[wardaddy]

Well....I certainly enjoyed the sermon Skooz. I could have wept to be in the company of so much kindred spirit.

The music and absorption of the Holy Spirit would take a bit of getting used to for me but I plan to go back...as does my mom. My wife wants to go next time.

I was raised urban SBC(with a very intellectual pastor), and my wife thoroughly enjoys her PCA church which is very young and vibrant and Conservative but I can see us attending Cornerstone when we feel the need for something extra. And the members were completely warm and inviting to visitors genuinely so.

I love hearing a preacher unafraid to address the modern world in light of scripture. I would love to take some of my Kumbaya Dem neighbors who attend Disciples of Christ, PCUSA, and United Methodist services and tie them to the pews just to watch their heads spin when the preacher got really cranked up....lol

Here's the link if you're curious:

http://www.cornerstonenashville.org/

My apologies to concerned Catholics for inserting this sidenote into their serious thread.

[B Knotts]

It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.

This I do not understand. Jesus commanded that we eat His Body, and drink His Blood. Not one or the other.

Is it perhaps that the practice futher encourages the use of EMEs?

[My back yard]

That is good news. Maybe we can get back to the days where there was respect and dignity observed in God's House.

[Consort]

"...when the Last Guitar is smashed over the head of the Last Liturgist."

That could lead to the rise of the Liturgical Litigist.

[Ann Archy]

You seem to care only about the power, honor and glory that the Priests get....geesh....the REAL Power, honor and glory is in Heaven if you do what God set out for you. Earthly glory is nothing.

[Desdemona]

I was at Easter Mass last year and there were cell phones ringing, teenage girls in tank tops and flip flops.

This is a weekly occurance in most places and should be dealt with at the parish level, but I don't know that this is going to be addressed in this document. I hope so.

[mtbopfuyn]

Sounds very much like the Taliban. Just more to strengthen my resolve not to return to the Catholic Church.

[Aliska]

woe to those who try to take them upon themselves.

The popes and bishops do that, as well as some priests. I have seen some evidence of humility on the part of the ministers of the church, but it isn't the norm.

[BlackElk]

Dare we hope that Sullivan will be replaced by a Catholic? Recent appointments have been generally very good.

[Ann Archy]

Popes don't step down. You must not be a Catholic or you would know this.

[american colleen]

Im sorry, pardon my ignorance but I didnt read that as "No having fun in Church". Sorry. Not trying to be confrontational, just debate the fact that God wants us to sit quietly absent of outward joy of his presence.

But if you are Catholic then you believe that the Mass is a re-presentation of the sacrifice of Him. I cannot imagine being at the foot of the cross on that day and "having fun".

Being at a properly said Mass is joy - the awed joy of being in His presence - not the hand-clapping kind of joy that we experience at a baseball game or a concert or a sschool play.

[Protagoras]

Not all PCUSA congregations are what you imply. The battle continues.