Posted on 09/23/2003 7:50:20 AM PDT by presidio9
No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.
Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.
According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.
The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.
If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.
According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."
The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.
Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.
Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.
The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."
Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.
Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.
The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.
The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.
It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.
Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.
"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.
A fear of mine is that TaT will be spread far and wide because Bishop O'Malley gave it the thumbs up.
And parents have no idea! It was just implemented today and all CCD sign-ups and teachers are bought and paid for. Very underhanded.
Curley and Nambla... you don't hear much in the mainstream press, but I just read a piece on the subject in Newsmax online magazine - dealing with Amazon.com selling the NAMBLA magazine subscription that allowed Charles Jaynes "to accept my sexuality and be comfortable with it".
Veils... I can get black or white, long or short (round doily things) for $7 or $3 dollars locally... if you want me to pick up one or more for you, let me know by FReepmail and I'll send them to you.
Great idea on the Latin! The internet is so good for that kind of thing. And I bet it makes the kids feel smart!
Hmmm - maybe it has something to do with making a joyful noise unto the Lord?
Nah - that would make too much sense. If they're off key, I'd demand my money back.
11 He that is the greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Matt 16:16 Jesus builds His Universal (Catholic) Church upon Peter (Pope.)
He sends the Holy Spirit upon it to Teach it all truth John 16:13
The Catholic Liturgy is the work of the Body of Christ. It is formal, solemn, and dignified and the Priests of the Catholic Church, in their role as alter Christus', are supposed to adhere to the Rubrics so as to extinguish, as much as possible, theri own prejudices, preferences, predelictions, and let Jesus work through them as Jesus , through the Priesthood He established, offers Himself to God as a Sacrifice of propitiation. At Mass, Jesus is both Priest and Victim and spontaneous yelling, clapping, cheering, praising ect is out of place in our Liturgy.
The Mass is both a Sacrifice and a Heavenly Banquet and, as such, ought to be formal and orderly.
Now, you are free to do as you desire in your church but don't think what you do is normative for others. I am happy to leave you to worship as you desire.
How's about returning the favor? It might just be the case you don't understand what it is you criticise.
Those sins are not going to be forgiven by your therapist - they are going to be forgiven by Jesus through the Priesthood He established in the Sacrament of Confession that He instituted to heal our broken lives and to communicate His grace to us.
You are not going to get better just by speaking to a Therapist.
The Great Doctor, Jesus will get you better when He feeds you His Sanctifying Grace in the Holy Eucharist and that Grace builds upon your fallen human nature and you, over time, become more and more like Jesus and less and less like your former sinful self.
1 Corinthians 11
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread,
24 And giving thanks, broke and said: Take ye and eat: This is my body, which shall be delivered for you. This do for the commemoration of me.
25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood. This do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.
26 For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come.
27 Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you: and many sleep.
I am sorry your affliction is so debilitating but staying away from the Divine Physician will not improve yoour condition.
Come to the Crucifix and bathe your wounds in His cleansing blood. Let the water from the wound in His sacred side cleanse you of all enmity, remorse, and bitterness and let the Bread of life feed you so that you may have life in you and be raised to eternal life on that last day.
Jesus , the Divine Physician, awaits you at Mass.
Did the woman run off for a chin-wag with her therapist or did she persevere and because of that perseverance was rewarded with a miracle by Jesus?
Sheesh. I wonder you can make even type so huge is that chip on your shoulder.
Well, not all self-described Christians believe in the sacramentality of Baptism. Nor do we agree on important issues such as the sacraments being the ordinary means of receiving sanctifying grace, the morality of artificial birth control, salvation outside the Church and abortion. These are not trivial issues that can be swept under the rug. Thank God Jesus left us His Church to provide us with clear teaching regarding these issues.
Oh crap.
Oh crap.
Look, I have no intention of getting into a fratricidal conflict with a brother in Christ. I avoid these "Catholic vs. Protestant" conflicts when I can. They never come to anything. We disagree on some things. But, I'm not going to get bent out of shape at a fellow Christian when an entire world is going to Hell and is in desperate need of Jesus Christ.
We have a commission to preach the Gospel to every creature. I haven't been nearly as faithful in that regard as I should be. I'm not going to waste God's precious time arguing with someone who obviously knows Him already. He is my Lord. I am happy He is yours, also. I'll just leave it at that.
Oh crap.
OK. Via con Dios 8-)
Anyway, bad news all around in the Archdiocese of Boston. However which way I roll those steel balls around in my hand (aquired right after the scandal broke in the BG) I can't figure out a good side to the TaT and the Cuenin story.
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