Posted on 10/22/2002 5:11:40 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood
It never ceases to amaze me that most Christians would criticize me for being an atheist, yet they will "celebrate" a macabre pagan holiday. They inculcate their children into the practice of it and feed them the most unhealthful things you could give a child to eat.
Likewise, many atheists criticize me for being a "right-winger." Most atheists are so caught up in their polemics, they have become nothing more than anti-Christians - or what I call the Religious Left (a collaboration of the Marxist religion, neo-pagan animal/tree/earth worshipper eco-fascists and general technophobes).
Why do you "celebrate" on certain "holidays," what are you celebrating, do you really know? Or have you been so lost in the conformity of it all to really take a look at what you partake in?
As you ponder this, two noted Christian philosophers support my secular argument...
Søren Kierkegaard from The Sickness Unto Death:
The fantastic is, of course, most closely related to the imagination [Phantasien], but the imagination is related in it’s turn to feeling, understanding, and will, so that a person’s feelings, understanding and will may be fantastic. Fantasy is, in general the medium of infinitization… (emphasis mine)
The fantastic is generally speaking what carries a person into the infinite in such a way that it only leads him away from himself and thus prevents him from coming back to himself.
Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan:
Part IV. Of the Kingdom of DarknessChap. xlv. Of Demonology and other Relics of the Religion of the Gentiles.
[14] An image, in the most strict signification of the word, is the resemblance of something visible: in which sense the fantastical forms, apparitions, or seemings of visible bodies to the sight, are only images; such as are the show of a man or other thing in the water, by reflection or refraction; or of the sun or stars by direct vision in the air; which are nothing real in the things seen, nor in the place where they seem to be; nor are their magnitudes and figures the same with that of the object, but changeable, by the variation of the organs of sight, or by glasses; and are present oftentimes in our imagination, and in our dreams, when the object is absent; or changed into other colours, and shapes, as things that depend only upon the fancy. And these are the images which are originally and most properly called ideas and idols, and derived from the language of the Grecians, with whom the word eido signifieth to see. They are also called phantasms, which is in the same language, apparitions. And from these images it is that one of the faculties of man's nature is called the imagination. And from hence it is manifest that there neither is, nor can be, any image made of a thing invisible.
[15] It is also evident that there can be no image of a thing infinite: for all the images and phantasms that are made by the impression of things visible are figured. But figure is quantity every way determined, and therefore there can be no image of God, nor of the soul of man, nor of spirits; but only of bodies visible, that is, bodies that have light in themselves, or are by such enlightened.
[16] And whereas a man can fancy shapes he never saw, making up a figure out of the parts of divers creatures, as the poets make their centaurs, chimeras and other monsters never seen, so can he also give matter to those shapes, and make them in wood, clay or metal. And these are also called images, not for the resemblance of any corporeal thing, but for the resemblance of some phantastical inhabitants of the brain of the maker. But in these idols, as they are originally in the brain, and as they are painted, carved moulded or molten in matter, there is a similitude of one to the other, for which the material body made by art may be said to be the image of the fantastical idol made by nature.
As you think further, exactly what is Halloween?
Originally, All Hallows' Eve was one of the great fire festivals of Britain at the time of the Druids. In Scotland it was associated with the time when the spirits of the dead, the demons, witches, and sorcerers were usually active and propitious.
Paradoxically, All Hallows' Eve was also a night when young people performed magical rituals to determine their future marriage partners. The youth of the villages carried on with much merry-making and sensual revelry, but the older people took great care to safeguard their homes from the evil spirits, witches, and demons who had exceptional power that night...
Can you guess my source here???
To most, it's no longer a macabre pagan holiday ... it's a night that the kiddos go from door to door to collect candy.
Have you even read his works?
Kierkegaard was a progenitor of extistenialism, and certainly not the progenitor.
You are using the quotations you cited completely out of context, at odds with his own philosopny, in a manner where you are simply twisting his words to back up your claim.
First you state: It never ceases to amaze me that most Christians would criticize me for being an atheist, yet they will "celebrate" a macabre pagan holiday. They inculcate their children into the practice of it and feed them the most unhealthful things you could give a child to eat.
Then you state: The fantastic is, of course, most closely related to the imagination [Phantasien], but the imagination is related in it’s turn to feeling, understanding, and will, so that a person’s feelings, understanding and will may be fantastic. Fantasy is, in general the medium of infinitization… (emphasis mine) The fantastic is generally speaking what carries a person into the infinite in such a way that it only leads him away from himself and thus prevents him from coming back to himself.
There is no argument you are making wherein Kierkegaard's citations you give has any impact.
The very same work you are quoting, he states: The self is the conscious synthesis of infinitude and finitude which relates itself to itself, whose task is to become itself, a task which can be performed only by means of a relationship to God., so when you emphasize Fantasy is, in general the medium of infinitization… you complete disregard that he maintains that the self cannot even exist without that same quality that allows for Fantasy.
All of which, while clearly indicating Kierkegaard viewed nothing in such concrete terms as you are trying to attribute to him, has nothing to do with either Halloween or allowing children to eat unhealthy food.
You should try actually reading him one day. You might like it.
It most certainly does not support your 'argument'.
Fallacy of begging the question.
Fallacy of actually understanding what Kierkegaard meant and applying it accordingly.
Around the DC area, going from door to door is out this year. The kids will be going to a party in costumes, play some games such as pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey (we'll wait for Dashwood to tell us about the Satanic signifigance of that!), and get some goodies to take home. Yeah, sounds like an evening dedicated to the worship of all that is unholy to me.
I shall simply observe that a braying jackass is the self-chosen symbol of the Democratic Party, and leave other to consider the possible satanic significance of your proposed game.
I shall instruct my daughters to pin that tail on while shouting "Take that, you left-wing tax monkey!"
Don't forget ... it was also the choice of transportation for our blessed Lord. ;o)
To quote Slim Pickens, from Blazing Saddles:
Gee Mr Lamarr, you use your tongue purtier than a twenty dollar w#$%#.
Would it be okay? Or would the original founders of the holiday be glad that their observance had made such an impact on society?
What's so evil about trick or treating? All the years I did it as a kid, not once did I think of any evil that went along with that day ... only about all the goodies that I got. :o)
I think God wants Christians to be a little discerning in what they celebrate.
Jer V2-3 Thus says the LORD: Do not learn the way of the Gentiles; Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, for the Gentiles are dismayed at them, for the customs of the people are futile [vanity, vain, worthless];
Gentiles at this time were those who did not know or have God. "Do not learn their ways". The ways of pagans are celebrating days like Halloween. I think the injunction still applies.
A similar prohibition is here:
When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise. You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it. (Deuteronomy 12.29-32)
Ahhh, you do admit to the "ritualization" of it. A form of worship, but to whom?
Thinking about the goodies all day when you were a kid? Greed? Gluttoney? What would you teach a child?
Childhood diabetes, poor dental health, childhood obesity, etc... The body is the temple of whom?
Really?
What do you call an anorexic woman with a yeast infection?
1/4 pounder with cheese...
suspect Halloween is a spiritually dangerous time for the kids..but then we live in a world where satan is the god.
Like the Satanic family altar of television?
So, you don't see beauty in all of your God's creations?
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