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How Will the World Explain the Rapture?
Rev310.net ^ | 4/16/23 | Scott Savell

Posted on 04/19/2023 4:52:54 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal

"Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will all be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51-52).

The Rapture of the Church. It is Christianity's most preposterous belief. The very idea that a Savior from the sky is coming to get a particular group of people, that dead bodies will be raised back to life, and those alive at that moment will be changed into a new body suitable for heaven before being snatch away from this earth seems more like the work of science fiction than unadulterated biblical truth. But this is exactly what the Bible teaches. Jesus promised His followers that he would return for them at some future time (see John 14:1-3). The Apostle Paul described this still future event when he wrote, "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians4:15-17).

The purpose for this article is not to defend the doctrine of the Pre-Trib Rapture of the Church. I'll save that for a future article. In this musing I want to consider how the world might go about explaining the disappearance of millions of people worldwide. Some explanation will most certainly be offered and I suspect Satan will, in a very direct but deceptive way, join in on the explanation. If millions of people have disappeared and you are reading this article in your search to figure out what has happened, please don't let anyone deceive you. The explanation the world will offer you will not be true. And the deceptive intervention from those who might seem other worldly will be just as false, no matter how 'miraculously convincing' their explanation appears.

The Rapture of the Church will occur at some future time just prior to the Return of Christ to this earth. This earth-shaking event will occur at seven or more years before Jesus' Second Coming. Since nearly every prophetic trend pointing to the soon start of that seven year period the Bible calls the Tribulation is accelerating and converging, we can only conclude the Tribulation is near. This can only mean the Rapture is close at hand. No one knows the day or the hour of the Rapture but the season of the Rapture is undoubtedly upon us. When it occurs the world will naturally be thrown into utter chaos. This will be in addition to whatever chaos is already occurring due to the ever increasing, accelerating and converging trends that are already in play. Those left behind will be looking for answers. Below are some of the possible answers you can expect and the one I believe will be at the top of the list of answers and will be convincingly offered to a world in chaos. There may certainly be additional possibilities not noted below. My list isn't meant to be exhaustive, only thought provoking.

Some possible explanations (in no particular order)...

1. It wasn't the Rapture, because we're still here -- Many of those left behind will have heard about the Rapture from Christian loved ones and friends. They will immediately conclude it was the Rapture. But, among those left behind will be some pretty prominent "Christian" religious leaders and even pastors. They will opine the disappearances could not possibly be the Rapture because, after all, they are still here.

2. Secret military technology -- Kind of far fetched in my opinion but I can see world leaders suggesting secret military technology by a hostile adversary as the culprit behind the disappearances.

3. Quantum leap in the human evolutionary process -- I wouldn't be surprised if many, if not all of the New Age practitioners and gurus suggest this idiotic idea as the reason for all the disappearances. They may say something along the lines of the 'vibrations' of all those who disappeared were out of harmony with the rest (those left behind) and who will be leaping forward in the evolutionary process. Another twist could be that those who disappeared are the ones who have made a quantum leap in the human evolutionary process and those left behind will need to fall in line if they have any hope of catching up with their evolved loved ones.

4. UFO's, UAE's, aliens, and the alien mother ship -- Although I am listing this explanation last, I believe it will be at the top of the list of explanations for the disappearances. I believe world leaders will not only offer this as the explanation but they will be assisted by the appearance of UFO's and aliens which will be nothing more than demons masquerading as our alien brothers or maybe even our creators. They will 'arrive' via so called UFO's that will, for the first time, be clear and easily observable by those left behind. It will be one of the greatest deceptions pulled off by Satan--the father of lies. In fact, this may very well be the grand delusion God sends upon an unbelieving world or at least a part of it. The Apostle Paul writes, "For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness" (2 Thessalonians 2:11). God will use Satan and eventually the Antichrist as His instruments of judgment.

Let's consider option 4 a little further. Hollywood, for example, has produced numerous movies in recent years about visitors from outer space. I'm convinced some of Hollywood's movie producers are getting their scripts from unseen sources. Could it be that Satan is using a mostly godless Hollywood to prepare the masses? Even more convincing than Hollywood is news reports of government confirmation of UFO's (or what the government refers to now as UAE's -- Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon) that began to trickle out a few years ago and is now reported with regularity. Here are a few news reports that have capture my attention and indicate to me the Tribulation Period is soon to start which can only mean the Rapture is close at hand.

1. I've seen the saucers: Obama weighs in as US interest in UFOs rises. This CBS 60 Minutes report appeared on May 20, 2021. "Obama was asked about the issue of UFOs during an interview on Tuesday, the former president confirming 'footage and records' of unidentified objects exist... What is true, and I'm actually being serious here, is that there's footage and records of objects in the skies, that we don't know exactly what they are, we can't explain how they moved, their trajectory,' Obama told CBS." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/20/ufo-obama-cbs-60-minutes-america-alienswww.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/20/ufo-obama-cbs-60-minutes-america-aliens

2. 'Something's coming': is America finally ready to take UFOs seriously? This article appeared on February 5, 2022. "Last year was a breakthrough time for UFOs, as a landmark government report prompted the possibility of extraterrestrial visitors to finally be taken seriously by everyone from senators, to a former president, to the Pentagon... In June, the Pentagon released a highly anticipated report on unexplained aerial phenomena (UAP), the now preferred nomenclature by some in the extraterrestrial community, which found ore than 140 instances of UAPs that could not be explained." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/05/ufos-america-aliens-government-report

3. Hundreds more UFO sightings included in latest report. It's not just 2022 and preceding years. 2023 has seen its fair share of UFO and UAE reports. On January 12, 2023, CBS News reported, "The office tracking reports of UFOs has added nearly 400 additional sightings to its catalog over the last year, either because of new sightings or older sightings discovered in existing files, bringing the total number of UFO sightings to over 500." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hundreds-more-ufo-sightings-included-latest-report/

4. Could aliens be investigating us? It's more likely than you think. "Aliens may be sending us very small 'dandelion see' probes to gather information, according to a news article appearing in the March 28, 2023 edition of The Jerusalem Post. "Pentagon officials wrote in a document released earlier this month that it is entirely possible that aliens are vising our solar system and releasing tiny probes to perform small-scale reconnaissance missions like the ones the National Aeronautics and Spaced Administration (NASA) conducts on other planets." https://www.jpost.com/omg/article-735664

Although UFO's and other worldly visitors have been described by humankind going back millennia, the real uptick in UFO activity seems to have begun in 1947 and has continued to what we have read about, heard about, and witnessed today. I find the 1947 date interesting as it is one year prior to the rebirth of Israel in sovereign fulfillment of Isaiah 66:8. The modern Zionist movement--a religious and political effort that brought thousands of Jews from around the world back to their ancient homeland in the Middle East and reestablished the nation can be traced back at least as far as 1894.

By 1947, I believe it had become obvious to Satan that God was about to fulfill His promises made in an everlasting covenant to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (see Genesis 12, 13, and 15). Since Satan is probably well aware of the coming Tribulation Period and the Rapture of the church that precedes it, it's no wonder that he and his minions would ramp up their spiritually deceptive practices of misleading men and women to believe the foolishness of aliens from outer space arriving via flying saucers or something similar. I believe what we are seeing today is yet another prophetic trend that is accelerating and converging with other prophetic trends all pointing to the to the fact the Tribulation Period is coming upon an unsuspecting world. I am fairly convinced that when the Rapture occurs, Satan and Company will be ready to further deceive the masses with a deluding influence explaining away the sudden disappearance of millions of people worldwide.

I believe the Rapture will occur any moment. It could very well be the catalyst that catapults the world into the final form of the ancient Roman Empire with its 10 kings who ultimately give their authority to the Antichrist. But I also believe it's possible it may not occur until sometime after the world morphs into 10 geopolitical regions and the 10 kings begin to rise to power. The disappearances followed by the arrival of humanity's 'ancient space brothers' arriving to 'set things right,' might be the perfect scenario to bring in the "man of lawlessness" (2 Thessalonians 2:3)--the Antichrist himself--who rises from among the 10 kings and to whom the 10 kings give all of their authority.

Will things work out this way? I'll admit, I am doing a lot of speculating so I'm not dogmatic about it. As I mentioned in a previous article, as the fog continues to lift, things will come into sharper focus. We will see things more clearly. In other words, time will tell. Of course, we may not be around to see it as the Rapture may very well occur right now!


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: endtimes; judgement; lastdays; tribulation
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

“What was that noise?”


101 posted on 04/20/2023 6:41:46 AM PDT by MortMan (The Republic committed suicide.)
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To: Philsworld
Do you think it is possible that one can receive Revelation from the Word of God? That by studying the Living Word, and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide and help you understand, that the Word can reveal the Truth to your spirit?

I say that only as a preface to my own experience. I knew nothing of Rome's attempts to confuse. I did not know McDonald, Scofield, Darby - or read anything they had written about the End Times. I simply studied the Word for myself, knowing that what was being taught from the pulpit and the lectures in college made absolutely no sense. The Body of Christ has NO place in the time of JACOB's Trouble!

Theologians who are purposely attempting to deceive are not folks I would look to for Biblical Truth. But perhaps God used them in some way - although I doubt it.

If you rightly divide the Word, identify the three groups on Earth now, and the current dispensation, everything starts to fall in place. And if you have taken the time to discover who you are in Christ, and where you are in the Body (Romans through Colossians) THEN you are ready for the Truth found in Thessalonians. If you are a spiritual babe, running around in your diapers with a religious sippy cup drinking milk, you are NOT ready for the meat.

Once you receive God's Revelation of Jesus coming for his Body, you can't unsee it. Its in your heart to stay.

If you want to read more, here are two blogs, where I provide my Biblical understanding for the Rapture. I promise, it did not come from Rome, Jesuits, or anyone else. It was right where the Holy Spirit placed it in the Word through Paul. Anyone with ears to hear and eyes to see will discover the Truth there.

Its The End Of The World As We Know It

I Would Not Have You To Be Ignorant, Brethren
102 posted on 04/20/2023 9:38:31 PM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

With all of the movies and pop culture references, I don’t think they would have to explain anything.

“isn’t this what that Nic Cage movie was talking about?”.


103 posted on 04/20/2023 9:50:14 PM PDT by Trump_Triumphant ("Our hearts are restless, Oh Lord, until they rest in thee"- St. Augustine)
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To: Renfrew

Good one!


104 posted on 04/20/2023 9:51:05 PM PDT by Trump_Triumphant ("Our hearts are restless, Oh Lord, until they rest in thee"- St. Augustine)
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To: telescope115

You are added :)
God Bless You!


105 posted on 04/21/2023 5:35:58 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Jesus + Something = Nothing ; Jesus + Nothing = Everything )
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To: Kandy Atz

——Do you think it is possible that one can receive Revelation from the Word of God? That by studying the Living Word, and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide and help you understand, that the Word can reveal the Truth to your spirit?

Sure. (I read your post and links)

A couple of questions for you:

Over the past 1500 years, why didn’t the Catholic Church or Protestant Reformers teach the PTR, if it’s such a clear biblical message as you claim it is?

Why did theologian Samuel Prideaux Tregelles write the following about the vision of Margaret Macdonald (which he personally witnessed in Edward Irving’s church) on the PTR, and then the PTR theory in general, if it was such a clear biblical message, as you claim?

“I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a SECRET RAPTURE of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether any one ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin. p. 26.”

“But there is a very different theory of the coming of the Lord as the hope of His Church, which many teach, and which many more receive, as though it were unquestioned truth.”

“It is said that there shall be a SECRET coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; that at this SECRET coming His believing people who are in their graves shall be raised, and the living changed, and that a secret rapture of the Church shall then take place; that this SECRET coming and SECRET rapture are our hope, and not the manifested appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven.”

“It is said that after this SECRET removal of the Church, the full manifestation of human evil, for some years at least, will take place, during which time shall be the display of the power of Antichrist,—the persecutions foretold in the Revelation, the extreme trials of Israel, the unequaled tribulation,—and that the end of this will be the manifestation of Christ visibly coming with His Church in the cloud of glory.”

“This is the doctrine of the SECRET coming of Christ, which many now preach as if it were the acknowledged truth of God, instead of its being (as is really the case) that which at every point would require proof from Scripture.”

“But not only is this doctrine of the coming of Christ not taught in the Word of God, but if, in what has been previously said, there is any point of truth, then this whole system stands in distinct contradiction of what the Scripture reveals.”

The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming: How is it Taught in Scripture? And Why? S. P. Tregelles. March 17, 1864.

****Tregelles was an EYEWITNESS to the event, when Margaret MacDonald made those utterances, and first time EVER hearing about the PTR theory.


106 posted on 04/22/2023 5:30:39 AM PDT by Philsworld (Saints are saints and angels are angels, except when they're called saints. )
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To: Philsworld
Over the past 1500 years, why didn’t the Catholic Church or Protestant Reformers teach the PTR, if it’s such a clear biblical message as you claim it is?

Because Rome was more interested in heresy hunting, torture and murder for fun and profit. They placed their religious monarchy and traditions ABOVE God's Word. Their seminaries teach Catholicism. There was a time when Bible reading was discouraged, translation to a common tongue worthy of death. In that atmosphere, few will read, and even fewer will BELIEVE what was written - especially if it disagrees with the state religion. The few Reformers who did speak out usually did not survive very long. But when the Word was translated to the common languages, and printing allowed its distribution, note how that coincided with Revelation returning.
When Paul's teaching was rediscovered, it was often at odds, sometimes profoundly, with the state religion. Justification by faith, the place and role of God's Word, the Body of Christ - long lost to the Church, exposed how far Rome had fallen. Heck, they even have a priesthood!
In this present dispensation of Grace, there is only one mediator between God and Man - Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5 - see also Hebrews 8, 9 & 12) The Body of Christ is about relationship, not religion. Believers ARE the Temple of God (consider that prayerfully). (1 Corinthians 3:16-17, 6:15-20, 2 Corinthians 6:11-18)
An earthly priesthood was recognized and ordained by God and confined to the nation of Israel (Exodus 19:6), and to the tribe of Levi (Aaron's sons). (Exodus 29:9) When Israel put themselves under the Law they had a conditional promise, "If ye shall obey my voice and keep my covenant then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine, and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests and an holy nation." (Exodus 19:5-6). They could not perform, and the promise is delayed until the End Times. Note Isaiah 61, quoted by Jesus in Luke 4:18-20. Jesus stops mid-verse for seemingly no reason. The rest of the passage had, and still has, a future fulfillment, especially - Isaiah 61:6 (KJV) "But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves."
The priesthood ended spiritually with the death and resurrection of Jesus, and physically with the destruction of Jerusalem. The Kingdom of Heaven (and King) was rejected by Israel (Acts 28:23-29), and Paul revealed the Mystery of the Church, officially starting the current time of Grace.
Consider the language of 1 Peter 2:1-12, and especially to whom the letter was addressed (also Peter's calling - Galatians 2:8). Is the Body of Christ ever referred to as a priesthood, or a nation in the letters written specifically TO the Church? The Jewish Believers addressed by Peter were priests in the spiritual sense, but not a Holy Nation, at least not yet. And in no way does this imply any earthly priesthood applies to the present age. To do so introduces much error and confusion (likely deliberately) into the Body of Christ. Before we leave 1 Peter 2, note the references to OT prophecies concerning Israel in the End Times.
Jesus did not set aside hundreds of years of laws and religious practices to create yet another laborious religious system for His Body. (Galatians 2 & 3) God wanted family and fellowship, not rudiments/elements (stoicheia), or the outward acts of religion that Paul confronts in (Galatians 4:3, 9) and (Colossians 2:8, 20).
The members of the Body of Christ are described as CHILDREN of God by faith in Christ Jesus. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for all are ONE in Christ Jesus, Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:6-29) Note that the Law, including the priesthood, came after Abraham, who was a friend of God because he trusted Him. Melchizedek was a type of Jesus - a true Eternal High Priest. (Genesis 14:18-20, Hebrews 7) He received tithes from Abram (later Abraham) and blessed Abram. Believers are CHILDREN of God because we believe in Jesus. We worship him not according to religious ceremony or ritual, instead we must worship Him spiritually, yes—in a truly spiritual manner too. (John 4:24 - Figure Hendiadys)
Believers are made alive in Christ, and seated in Heavenly places. (Ephesians 2) There is now no condemnation because Believers are set free from the Law of sin and death, are joint heirs with Jesus, and children of God (Romans 8). What sacrifice could a priest even offer that would surpass what Jesus has already done? What ceremony or ritual could a priest perform that would make you any closer to God than having Him DWELL IN YOU?
God's plan is clear for leadership in His Church. It is not by man's choice, or an institutional decision. Jesus is the HEAD of His Body, and only HEAD. (Ephesians 1 & 5, Colossians 1, and many others) God places everyone in the Body where He pleases. (1 Corinthians 12:12-31) And He provides folks to help the Body mature.
And if you look at Rome, and sadly many Protestant churches as well, they look nothing like what Paul describes. They are full of rituals and ceremonies, religious hooey, while neglecting the most important part - teaching the Living Word! And allowing the Spirit to guide their worship and lives.

Why did theologian Samuel Prideaux Tregelles write the following about the vision of Margaret Macdonald (which he personally witnessed in Edward Irving’s church) on the PTR, and then the PTR theory in general, if it was such a clear biblical message, as you claim?

Some people BELIEVE, others don't. Sometimes it takes a good theologian to help you misunderstand. Jesus promised that satan comes IMMEDIATELY to steal the Word when it is sown. My experience with theologians - especially college professors, is they have an abundance of PRIDE. They were taught a certain way, and by God, that's the way it is. So error is passed from generation to generation. You receive God's Word like a little child. You believe and receive. The Holy Spirit confirms the Word in your spirit. And finally, HIS SHEEP, hear His voice.
Tregelles was likely a sincere man. Probably not familiar with gifts of the Spirit - as for many years we have been told by religion (NOT God's Word) that they ended with the death of the original apostles. Note he immediately dismisses it as a false prophesy - often done by those who do not believe or understand spiritual gifts - and btw you will not experience that which you dismiss.
Based on his own testimony, it does not sound like he even bothered to seek the Truth in the Word. He dismisses it without inquiry. Such is the folly of pride. Note his own words - "I am not aware..." does that sound like someone who like a Berean, studied the Word, or sought out the Holy Spirit's leading on this? No, he relied on his own intellect and dismissed it.
I'm honestly not sure why you keep emphasizing "secret" like that is some kind of gotcha word. There is NOTHING secret about the Blessed Hope. Its been in the Word from the very beginning. Just because theologians or religious folks ignored it, or failed to understand, does not make it any less TRUE. You have to purposely misread Thessalonians to miss it. But then, that is not the only place it is mentioned.

IF THEN you have been raised with Christ [to a new life, thus sharing His resurrection from the dead], aim at and seek the [rich, eternal treasures] that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. [Ps. 110:1.] 2 And set your minds and keep them set on what is above (the higher things), not on the things that are on the earth. 3 For [as far as this world is concerned] you have died, and your [new, real] life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, Who is our life, appears, then you also will appear with Him in [the splendor of His] glory.
The Amplified Bible (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1987), Col 3:1–4.

That was written TO THE CHURCH, not Israel or the Nations (Gentiles). We APPEAR WITH HIM. This is NOT the 2nd Coming when returns to the Earth. Note the conditional phrase at the start of that passage. It would take a theologian to misunderstand something so simple.

I find his conclusion almost humorous. He's basically saying since I don't believe it, its not true. Maybe a hint of arrogance? Meekness is a virtue. Meekness is having a teachable spirit. Its that necessary trait that KNOWS we have an infallible God working through fallible people. God's Word is alive. But it has been copied, translated, by flawed men. Most of the early English translations came from a very bad latin translation heavily biased by Jewish tradition. Some of the best translations are now coming out as knowledge, technology and available works in ancient languages are more widely available than ever. I've been studying Genesis, and its mind-blowing how a biased translation can cause so much harm.

The Bible is God's Truth, but it MUST be spiritually discerned. And rightly divided, as to whom it was written, when, why. Then, of course there is context to consider. And finally, for the religious reader, they MUST set aside their religious beliefs and let the Word speak to their heart. Tregelles likely believed the Church will go through the Tribulation. He was taught that in school, so that must be true. But one only has to to do a little reading to see that is just not possible. And if he really KNEW Jesus, and the LOVE of the Father, he would KNOW that was not possible. That is what drove me. And when I read it, I BELIEVED the Word.

Its kind of funny. Once you start seeing it, everything that was once confusing falls neatly into place. First, its clear there is a difference between Israel, Church, and the nations. Israel will face a very different End Times than the Church. I used to worry about the end times, maybe even be afraid. That is LONG GONE. The TRUTH makes you FREE! You will notice that the Bible is mostly about Israel, the Body of Christ is only discussed in a handful of books. Jesus was primarily ministering to Israel, so even his prophetic remarks need to be carefully considered before any attempt is made to apply them to the Body of Christ. The Church ABSOLUTELY did not replace Israel. Every prophesy, shadow and type will come to fruition in its proper time. But the point is, the Bible is FOR us, but not always written TO or ABOUT us. Very important to understand this key point.

This has gone too long - I apologize. I just started flowing. Just to sum up. I read his quote one last time. If he had ONLY heard it as a prophetic utterance, he SHOULD have opened the Scriptures and searched the matter out. But notice, he never refutes it with Scriptural evidence or even his own theory. Its just wrong because he said so - is what I get. It is possible those parts were edited out, and if that is the case, I take back what I said. The Truth is in the Word. Its up to individuals to seek it out and BELIEVE. Some will, others will not. I will end with the following. There just might be a faith component to the Rapture.

5 Because of faith Enoch was caught up and transferred to heaven, so that he did not have a glimpse of death; and he was not found, because God had translated him. For even before he was taken to heaven, he received testimony [still on record] that he had pleased and been satisfactory to God. [Gen. 5:21-24.]
The Amplified Bible (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1987), Heb 11:5.
107 posted on 04/22/2023 10:21:18 AM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: Kandy Atz

——>I find his conclusion almost humorous. He’s basically saying since I don’t believe it, its not true.

No, he’s saying it’s not in the bible and it’s a Satanic theory.

——>Samuel Prideaux Tregelles...Based on his own testimony, it does not sound like he even bothered to seek the Truth in the Word.

Yes, he certainly did. Here’s a link to the book in question. It’s not even debatable after you read it.

https://www.brethrenarchive.org/people/samuel-prideaux-tregelles/pamphlets/the-hope-of-christs-second-coming-how-is-it-taught-in-scripture-and-why/

On the bottom of page 59 to 60, he says this little gem:

“If there are points which are not certainly or definitely stated in Scripture, some conclusion may, perhaps, be formed from analogy or probable inference; but when the Scripture tells the events and their order, then what is called “ free enquiry “ has no place whatever. Those who sit in judgment on Scripture, and question or deny what it conclusively says, are not fitting persons to be listened to as teachers in the Church of Christ, whatever be their claims as to wisdom or holiness.”

No one knew anything about a secret PTR until the Catholic Church came up with their Counter Reformation smoke and mirror theories. Then, folks like Darby took it from there. It wasn’t taught by anyone until the 1800’s. The reason is...because it’s not in the bible.

What I quoted from him is only a drop in the bucket.


108 posted on 04/23/2023 4:52:40 AM PDT by Philsworld (Saints are saints and angels are angels, except when they're called saints. )
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To: Kandy Atz

——>If he had ONLY heard it as a prophetic utterance, he SHOULD have opened the Scriptures and searched the matter out.

He did. It’s all in his book.


109 posted on 04/23/2023 4:54:08 AM PDT by Philsworld (Saints are saints and angels are angels, except when they're called saints. )
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To: Kandy Atz

——>But notice, he never refutes it with Scriptural evidence or even his own theory.

Yes, he does. It’s clearly outlined in the book.


110 posted on 04/23/2023 4:55:23 AM PDT by Philsworld (Saints are saints and angels are angels, except when they're called saints. )
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To: Kandy Atz

——>The Church ABSOLUTELY did not replace Israel.

The Church is a CONTINUATION of Israel.


111 posted on 04/23/2023 4:57:45 AM PDT by Philsworld (Saints are saints and angels are angels, except when they're called saints. )
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To: Kandy Atz; patriot torch

An excellent post (107) that I know you’ll appreciate, Patriot.

Superb, Kandy Atz. Thanks for posting it.


112 posted on 04/23/2023 7:43:33 AM PDT by SouthernClaire (Jesus plus anything at all = idolatry & spiritual adultery.)
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To: Kandy Atz
The priesthood ended spiritually with the death and resurrection of Jesus, and physically with the destruction of Jerusalem

Good post but I have a problem here.
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
There are two priesthoods and they follow the order in 1 Corinthians 15:46. The first is natural or physical; the second would be the spiritual. It was the Levitical priesthood that ended with the resurrection.
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

113 posted on 04/24/2023 10:30:32 AM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: Seven_0
Key point - ON EARTH.

An earthly priesthood was recognized and ordained by God and confined to the nation of Israel (Exodus 19:6), and to the tribe of Levi (Aaron's sons). (Exodus 29:9) When Israel put themselves under the Law they had a conditional promise, "If ye shall obey my voice and keep my covenant then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine, and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests and an holy nation." (Exodus 19:5-6). They could not perform, and the promise is delayed until the End Times. Note Isaiah 61, quoted by Jesus in Luke 4:18-20. Jesus stops mid-verse for seemingly no reason. The rest of the passage had, and still has, a future fulfillment, especially - Isaiah 61:6 (KJV) "But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves."

The point was to differentiate between the Body of Christ and Israel, both now and the future. There is no need for an Earthly priesthood in the Body.

114 posted on 04/24/2023 2:54:00 PM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: Kandy Atz
The point was to differentiate between the Body of Christ and Israel, both now and the future. There is no need for an Earthly priesthood in the Body.

I don’t disagree about the earthly priesthood but the heavenly or spiritual priesthood is forever. One of the duties of the priest was to administer the sacrifices. When they unwittingly offered up Christ for the final sacrifice, it ended that part of the priest’s duty. I don’t know if the earthly priesthood continues.
115 posted on 04/25/2023 1:15:07 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: Kandy Atz

The Word of God is Jesus.

Why do you talk of “rightly dividing the Word” - that is just wrong and leads to all errors.

The Bible is a story of God saving humanity - from Genesis to Revelation. This is one narrative through different authors. There is no dispensaationalist “divisions” except made-up


116 posted on 04/27/2023 9:32:09 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Kandy Atz

There is nothing in the Bible that supports a pre-tribulation rapture.

That is why no Christians - not even those who left orthodoxy - no Christ believers had anything like the “pre tribulation rapture” as a belief system.

It, the pre-tribulation rapture, is purely an invention of Darby in the early 1800s to get followers. There was John Smith, the founder of Mormons, then the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists, the found of the Jevhosah’s Witnesses etc. who all were around in the USA in the early 1800s and created their religions to get followers.


117 posted on 04/27/2023 9:36:10 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Kandy Atz
There was a time when Bible reading was discouraged,

you do realize that is patently false, right?

The Church has 2 readings from the Bible each day and 3 on Sunday. In the course of 3 years you would hear the entire Bible

At no point in history has "Bible reading been discouraged" --> who told you such lies?

translation to a common tongue worthy of death

Again, this is a lie --> perhaps you don't know that many English versions of Scripture existed before Wycliff, and these were authorized by the Church.

I’m not sure why you think it was the Catholic Church that sentenced Tyndale to death. That’s not historically accurate. Henry leaned on his ally, King Charles V, to in turn lean on the Magistrate of Antwerp to get Tyndale executed.

Henry VIII wanted to be remarried and annul his previous marriage, but in 1530, Tyndale wrote The Practice of Prelates, a political tract opposing Henry VIII's political policies.

hence his final words “Lord, open the King of England’s eyes!”

118 posted on 04/27/2023 9:48:24 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Kandy Atz
KandyAst When Paul's teaching was rediscovered,

Again, someone has fed you lies. Paul's teachings were never "lost" - they were read in Church daily or nearly daily

119 posted on 04/27/2023 10:03:04 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos
There is nothing in the Bible that supports a pre-tribulation rapture.
1Thes 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Am I right to assume that you accept that this verse describes the rapture and that the question is when it happens? I suggest that the following versed also describes the rapture. If not, then can you tell me what it is?
Rev 14:15-16 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
It, the pre-tribulation rapture, is purely an invention of Darby in the early 1800s to get followers.

Do you think that because something was discovered recently it is not valid? Darby gave us details of his theory in his books and we can check his reasoning using the same Bible that he used. Darby cannot validate the Bible; it is the other way around. You attack the messenger without verifying the message.

God wrote a book. There is evidence that the Bible is God’s work. That is another discussion but we should expect it to contain be much treasure that is yet to be discovered.
120 posted on 04/27/2023 10:53:38 AM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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