Pastor Tupirani da Hora Lores preaches at his church in Rio de Janeiro, June 2020. (Courtesy of Sinagoga Sem Fronteiras via JTA)
Posted on 06/22/2020 12:52:22 AM PDT by Cronos
Pastor Tupirani da Hora Lores preaches at his church in Rio de Janeiro, June 2020. (Courtesy of Sinagoga Sem Fronteiras via JTA)
A Brazilian pastor prayed to God to “destroy the Jews like vermin” and bring about a second Holocaust during a sermon in Rio de Janeiro.
“Massacre the Jews, God, hit them with your sword, for they have left God, they have left the nations,” Pastor Tupirani da Hora Lores shouted at dozens of congregants earlier this month at his Geracao Jesus Cristo church, a recording of the event shows. His congregants are heard repeating his words passionately.
Fronteiras via JTA)
JTA — A Brazilian pastor prayed to God to “destroy the Jews like vermin” and bring about a second Holocaust during a sermon in Rio de Janeiro.
“Massacre the Jews, God, hit them with your sword, for they have left God, they have left the nations,” Pastor Tupirani da Hora Lores shouted at dozens of congregants earlier this month at his Geracao Jesus Cristo church, a recording of the event shows. His congregants are heard repeating his words passionately.
“They contrived, went with prostitutes, and when they were told to repent they said they’d do it but they lied,” the pastor said,....
“God, what you have done in World War II, you must do again, this is what we ask for in our prayers to you: Justice, justice, justice!” da Hora Lores shouted at his church, a small and radical evangelical congregation.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesofisrael.com ...
The last scripture reference should read 2 Thess 2:3 ... very bad eyes and old fingers.
Elsie, shouldn’t you ping teppe, since you quoted his holy Mormon prophets and extra biblical books?
You think that Paula White isn't an evangelical?!
Oneness only (we are saved) Pentecostalism? Paula White ? Since the question really is "How can you object to a radical ‘destroy the Jews like vermin’ being called a evangelical when the term is used broadly, then my answer is "Do you think that Nancy Pelosi isn't a Catholic?" How about sedevacantists?
The point and issue is that if Catholics can object to even the pope being called a Catholic, then we should be able to object to this “Massacre the Jews, God, hit them with your sword" pastor being uncritically described as a evangelical.
Do you agree or disagree?
How? Because this is not a article on such scholarly debated issues as predestination, cessationism, eschatology (including supersessionism), musical instruments, but about what a radical anti-Semitic ‘destroy the Jews like vermin’ graffiti-gospel group did 2 years ago, presented by a anti-evangelical flame-baiting, and thus you got it.
“So a nutjob asks God to destroy Jews, and you think a nation’s military/espionage branch should literally murder them?”
Let me tell you a story about a frustrated painter that used to talk crap in beer halls.. . . .
That said, your point is taken.
Still there.
Also a Confederate one.
“This group is a cult. Racist murderers cannot be evangelical Christians.”
FWIW, as an outsider, I agree this is a cult. Whether or not he is a Nazarine, I leave to you all.
REGARDLESS, I don’t judge all Nazarenes by the acts and beliefs of a few (this group, or say, the Westboro Baptists), just as I hope Gentiles don’t judge Jewish people by the acts of, say, the Neturei Karta (the Hasdic cult one sees hanging out with Iranian leaders).
Every group has weirdos.
It’s completely unfair to judge the larger group for the acts of a few — especially when the larger groups stands up and calls them insane.
He's not a priest. He's some goofball hate monger who is a "protestant pastor" on paper.
>> The man is an evangelical as is his congregation. The more critical factor is why - why is he so anti-semitic. This evangelical church in Brazil is called "controversial" in the Brazilian press, but it doesn't say why they act that way. They are radically anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish. his evangelical group does seem to follow the solas and have a lot of “born again” emphasis. <<
I agree. Again, he is an Evangelical Protestant ON PAPER. This doesn't mean he is in line with what "mainstrea, Evangelical protestant preach anymore than insane Social Justice/Black Power preaching "Father" Michael Pfleger is preaching traditional Catholicism in his sermons. Pfleger is merely a "Catholic priest" ON PAPER.
>> Cronos, I don’t think you understand what “evangelical” means. It is the belief that salvation is based solely on grace through Jesus Christ just as the Bible explains. As others on this thread have so rightly pointed out, this man in not an evangelical. <<
Ummm, no. That would be what Protestantism in general believes, and "evangelicals" are simply a subgroup of that. But "mainline" and NON-evangelical protestants preach "faith alone" in Jesus will save you, too. It's been a centerpiece of Protestantism since Martin Luther. Pretty sure this guy believes it, too.
>> This pastor is a Brazilian counterpart of the “God Hates Fags” cult from Kansas or the Aryan Nations cult from Idaho. The MSM seeks such cultists out in an attempt to smear evangelical and fundamentalist Christians <<
Good point, but I don't think Cronos said this lunatic was in any way a typical example of an Evangelical. I agree the media just cherry picks this wackjob so they can bash all Christians in general.
>> Evangelical? This clown is further proof that the term evangelical has been so distorted that there is no evidence whatsoever as to what it means when just spouted off. If Jim Jones, Kenneth Copeland and Joel Osteen say they are evangelicals, they are lying. <<
And that has been my point on FR for a while. The term has become meaningless. The media just uses it as codeword for "right wing Christian". It's like how any Republican FReepers don't like is called a "RINO", regardless of their ideology. Jimmy Carter, Harriet Miers, Jim Jones, Kenneth Copeland, and Joel Osteen, all tagged as "Evangelicals" for whatever reason.
And technically speaking, the term "Evangelical" means someone who evangelizes, so by definition, ALL Christians would be considered "evangelicals". Now, I doubt most of us actually go around actively proselytizing our faith to others, but nevertheless, that is what Jesus called on his followers to do and that is general "mission" of Christianity. So if everyone is "evangelical", then basically, no one is.
Jude 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
I'm not sure what's the value is of giving forum to the apostates in the church/Church these days when we have enough crazy believers to deal with.
Jim Jones: good ol’ Indiana boy!
I’ve had enough, “Look! a Squirrel!!” comments to last me a while.
And technically speaking, the term "Evangelical" means someone who evangelizes, so by definition, ALL Christians would be considered "evangelicals".
You are actually not quoting and responding to my posts, even though you replied to me first, however, in regards what you say here, rather than all Christians are evangelical, it was the OP who contended for the term "evangelical" as being defined by a solitary specific belief, if without elaboration, and contended against our objection to this ‘destroy the Jews like vermin’ pastor being called "evangelical," upon the premise that the term evangelism can encompass many persons of contrary beliefs.
However, I pointed out that the term "Catholic" can also encompass many persons of contrary beliefs, and Catholics (esp. here) regularly object to many of those who Rome manifestly considers to be members being called "Catholic" (even the pope). Thus I stated,
The point and issue is that if Catholics can object to even the pope being called a Catholic, then we should be able to object to this “Massacre the Jews, God, hit them with your sword" pastor being uncritically described as a evangelical. Do you agree or disagree?
That’s Slanderson. I ran into his clone, Jonathan Shelley, when he was in Houston.
Isn’t that the same dude, who tried the beer hall putsch? 😁😆
So that means Dannyboy, you agree that this Evangelical pastor from rio who is anti-semitic and anti-Catholic retains the same evangelical beliefs in the solas and born again?
That’s true. Though he does differ with you on the anti-Semitic piece
The thing is - this anti-semitic, anti-catholic brazilnut evangelical pastor differs radically from people like Danny etc. on the anti-semitism
They, and other self-called "evangelicals" on FR are not anti-semitic. But on other topics like the solas and the "born again" emphasis, they would be similar in beliefs to the Brazil nut
We can't use the term "mainstream Evangelical" as, there isn't any common consensus beyond the solas and the "born again" emphasis -- for instance you have these anti-semites like in the article and you also have Evangelicals who reject the Trinity
In fact the very term "evangelical" is too broad - as it encompasses the non-Trinitarians, the anti-semites as well as good ol' Danny and others. It's far better to just point out "the church of Dan" - as on other topics there are substantial differences.
It’s an article from the Times of Israel talking about a radical anti-semitic evangelical pastor. You make it out that it describes all people who call themselves “evangelical” - and while there are anti-semites among American Evangelicals, I don’t think you or other self-called “evangelicals” share those anti-semitic opinions, I hope, right?
a/ he has dozens of parishioners...
b/ Hispanics have very high rate of anti semitism.
Even if that presumed similarity was established, your only basis for calling this Brazilian evangelical despite his aberrational virulent anti-semitism, was that of his presumed belief in being born again. Yet evangelicals also hold to the Trinity as Creator, the Virgin birth, the physical vicarious death and resurrection of Christ, by effectual regenerating heart-purifying faith in Him, His coming again in judgment, and resurrection of the just and unjust, and eternal life and damnation respective to each, and many more. Thus consistent with even your solitary shared commonality=sameness premise while presuming more, and ignoring anything that does not conflate, then evangelicals can be called Catholic.
We can't use the term "mainstream Evangelical" as, there isn't any common consensus beyond the solas and the "born again" emphasis
Another false statement, contrary to abundant testimony from those who are labelled Evangelical.
-- for instance you have these anti-semites like in the article and you also have Evangelicals who reject the Trinity. In fact the very term "evangelical" is too broad - as it encompasses the non-Trinitarians, the anti-semites as well as good ol' Danny and others.
Meanwhile you have Catholics (many on FR) who even reject Francis as being pope, and Catholic, and also reject liberal Catholics (and many others) as being so, despite Rome manifestly considering them members in life and in death. Thus "Catholic" is too broad, and consistent with your reasoning, we can't use the term "mainstream Catholic." "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matthew 7:2)
It's far better to just point out "the church of Dan" - as on other topics there are substantial differences.
Consistent with that, you have multitudes of Catholic churches. As a poster who_would_fardels_bear delineated:
so-called traditional Catholics have split themselves into almost as many sects as Protestants have. There are:
1. Church Militant who chastise the Bishops but not the Pope
2. The Wanderer supporters
3. The Remnant led by the brother of the publisher of The Wanderer who now disowns The Wanderer
4. The SSPX
5. Those that believe the SSPX is a valid Catholic organization but aren't members.
6. Those who believe the SSPX is in apostasy
7. Those former members of the SSPX that believe Fellay is too deferential to the Pope
8. Sedevacantists who believe Francis is the first anti-Pope or non-Pope
9. Sedevacantists who believe John XXIII was the first anti-pope or non-Pope and that the Second Vatican Council is invalid
10. Those that believe in various conspiracy theories that the Church is now completely controlled by: The Vatican Bank, Gays, Masons, Space Aliens, the Illuminati or some combination of the above
11. Various groups of reasonable Catholics who either quietly or on record disagree with the Pope but are unwilling to go all the way and call him a heretic
12. Various groups of reasonable Catholics who are willing to call the Pope a heretic but are also willing to wait for the process of replacement to unfold in an orderly manner
(NOTE: Church Militant may have changed its position recently to be more directly in opposition to the Pope but I haven't kept track.)
And as another poster wryly summed it,
The last time the church imposed its judgment in an authoritative manner on "areas of legitimate disagreement," the conservative Catholics became the Sedevacantists and the Society of St. Pius X, the moderate Catholics became the conservatives, the liberal Catholics became the moderates, and the folks who were excommunicated, silenced, refused Catholic burial, etc. became the liberals. The event that brought this shift was Vatican II; conservatives then couldn't handle having to actually obey the church on matters they were uncomfortable with, so they left. ” - Nathan, https://christopherblosser.wordpress.com/2005/05/16/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of-catholic-teaching (original http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog/2005/05/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of.html)
Thus we have, Is Catholicism about to break into three?
Archbishop Viganò: We Are Witnessing Creation of a ‘New Church ’
The SSPX's Relationship with Francis: Is it Traditional? post #6
Is the Catholic Church in De Facto Schism?
The Impossibility of Judging or Deposing a True Pope...If Francis is a true Pope …
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