Posted on 09/01/2015 7:03:11 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Okay, I pray he will make a full and complete confession. I see no need for him to be restored to employment in his father's religious 501(c)(3) corporation. When an insider family makes millions in salaries from religion they find it difficult to give it up. It is a family business.
Let’s not do pictures.
That’s absolutely the best reply I have ever seen during all my years here.
My wife and I met playing quarters at a party when we were young. December will mark 30 years of marriage for two imperfect souls. If God could not use man’s sinful nature to work His perfect will, then He would be powerless in this world.
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
My husband and I met in the Society for Creative Anachronism. We’ve been married 27 years and have ten children. God has a sense of humor!
Herein lies (one of) the central differences between Reformed/Calvinist theology and the rest of Christianity. The "T" of the T.U.L.I.P. Many things have been written about it pro and con for me though it's untenable simply because it disallows for any cooperation between God and man.
It's "funny" how every person who is "saved" under this system also knows for certain they are saved and not that they are fooling themselves.
No one can know they are "saved" by reasoning on their own. Have to be told they are saved. But all who are saved, and know it, believe in the complete lack of man to know God (the T of the T.U.L.I.P). Somehow they just "know", but it's not because of any idea or realization they have had, even a thought "helped" by God isn't allowed (because that would be "synergism").
After all, again, men cannot know God by any idea of their own or any idea or thought that is even inspired or aided by God, but still has human effort behind it too (again the T of the T.U.L.I.P or really at this point we're talking about "monergism") They just "know". Sure is lucky for them.
But maybe all I've written is the product of a "totally depraved" mind. Who knows. Maybe it is, or maybe not. Who can ever know for certain? Know for certain that "A" is Truth and "B" is not after all, the mind is "totally depraved" without God. Seems to me a totally depraved mind could believe a whole host of errors and not even know it. May even claim what are actually errors are "what the Bible says". Never would be able to tell though "what the Bible says" (and doesn't say) with a totally depraved mind. Except for of course self serving arguments like "total depravity is abrogated when one is saved, so from then on, one can understand Scripture". Deus ex machina anyone?
Just seems all too "neat" to me. And maybe a bit circular too. But I haven't been "saved" yet (according to some) so I guess there's hope.
You don't understand what I am saying. He is likely afraid to commit to another woman because he is afraid of becoming close to the person and loosing another spouse. Thus a married person is what many afraid of commitment choose because think that there can be no commitment which they are scared of. I'm not saying it's right.
I'm simply trying to explain why he would even go there when he otherwise would not. That kind of loss is one many do not understand unless they have dealt with it. It can bring on a lot of darkness that has to be dealt with, for some a lot of anger at the deceased, GOD, family, you name it, confusion, loneliness, fear of never loving another person, fear of not ever finding such a love again,fear of marrying again and facing the new spouses death again, all of the above, some of the above, at any given time, all of the time, a very short time, or it can last for years.
His sin was in the mind not in the flesh. Wrong? Yes definitely. Most do no less IN THEIR MINDS others usually lie :>} Others are fortunate enough not to have any sexual feelings I reckon. These acts everybody in society accepts such as looking at the pictures a friend sent in an e-mail as a joke, reading a magazine such as Playboy {even the articles or letters}, staring at that cute young thing walking across the parking lot, whatever. What runs through the mind is one thing then conscience says Uh hey don't go there?
Other sins just as serious we all pass of as well that's ok. Wishing to do someone serious physical harm for an act they were likely oblivious too like nearly running you off the road and you say If I could catch that ***##@@ I'd beat the living @$$#@ out of him even anger against someone without a true cause which happens a lot in marriage. It's wrong.
Persons respond to grief differently no two persons are the same. You date someone too soon people talk, you don't date again people talk, the foundation of friends and persons you knew changes at the death of a spouse as well every aspect of your being changes. Why? Because your common bond with them was as a couple. OH and porn might be a venue someone dealing with their grief takes briefly. The mind plays some very real & cruel tricks on a person in that timeframe, they are very vulnerable and not as strong or alert in their spiritual self. When it overcomes and won't go away at that point professional help is needed. Meaning a grief specialist or a therapist to help get through it.
He sinned, we all sin, but this was not a flesh sin as in bedding someone but a sin in his brain which I commend him for not following through. It should have been kept between him and The Lord and maybe a counselor.
I'm saying what I say as one who has been down the loss of spouse to death road twice the last just five months ago. I remarried first time in less than six months. My next marriage was almost thirty years. Did I step out either time? No. Several reasons. GOD would know, I would know, My wives both of whom knew me like a book would know and I would never inflict that hurt upon them, and I had who I wanted. Everyone gets tempted. It's how we handle the temptation as in carrying out our wayward thoughts that matters. That man went to a stupid website most persons including myself never heard of. It ended as going to the website and his conscience convicting him it was wrong and he backed out. That is how it is supposed to work. Temptations will always be there for one and all. Once we see the sin the wise thing to ask yourself is it worth it? He obviously by his account said no. That should have been it and It sure as heck should not have been a news story.
He did need to step away from his ministry. Not because of a stupid act he did but rather he needed to step back and have time to heal outside of for a preacher what can be very judgmental eyes. I've seen preachers fired because they could not handle grief. One situation was he could not face seeing his dieing friend the church music director who was dieing. The man could barely 30 years ago visit my then girlfriend in the hospital because it hurt him so much. He knew what she had been through in her previous marriage which was severe abuse, cheated on, and then abandoned with two kids. He saw her life changing finally for the better. Then he saw an illness where she could never walk another step. It affected him. It's called grief. On the flip side he did do our wedding for us in the hospital. He said it was the best one he had did in his life LOL.
At some point we all face it. Loosing a spouse to death can bring a darkness and pain you can not describe to anyone who has not been there. Preachers are as human as you and me and make the same mistakes. We are blessed that The Lord doesn't treat us as we treat them.
He was in a position of trust. He acted on it. That is how AM was traced to him through the hack. He blogged about AM and publicly lied. He blogged about Josh Duggar and deceived the public. This is all the flesh, not just the mind.
As with Josh Duggar, we really don't know if he is telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We know he lied about it. We know he was caught.
He was no less guilty of a sin 99.9 percent of us have done that is unless you don't understand just what that sin actually is. His sin was not taking another ones spouse NOR cheating on his own. His sin was an impure thought he did not follow through on. As such his sin should have been between himself and The Lord. It was no one elses businesses and caused needless pain to others making it public. All he needed was confessing it to The Lord in private, changing his thoughts { also known as repenting}, and getting some professional help so he can get on own with his life and for him it sounds like a wife down the road would be a good idea. But women who can take the stress of being a ministers wife are not found everywhere.
Of course he followed through on it or we would not even be discussing it. He left an email trail and made a public statement after blogging twice and lying about it.
As such his sin should have been between himself and The Lord. It was no one elses businesses and caused needless pain to others making it public.
He made it public.
All he needed was confessing it to The Lord in private, changing his thoughts { also known as repenting}, and getting some professional help so he can get on own with his life and for him it sounds like a wife down the road would be a good idea. But women who can take the stress of being a ministers wife are not found everywhere.
The more I read about the family business at Ligonier the less I like it. Hiring family members with lavish perks and salaries, RC Sproul Jr was defrocked from the ministry so his father set him up with a job.
His public statement should not have been made. The board once they found out should have said RC get counseling now or step down. Sounds like his ISP address was read and someone was privy to it. There's a word for that but today that no longer results in criminal prosecution. We just call it politics now.
How much did you read about him besides the tabloid scandal sites? In December 2011 his wife died. in October 2012 his disabled daughter died. His oldest kid was 18 & youngest was two at the time. Sounds like he was dealing with a lot. Hey I got a swell idea Lets hang him from a tall Oak tree and we'll all feel real good.
As for extravagances related to churches? Personally I think the simpler things are kept in a church the better. I grew up in one that was able to support the pastor full time. As an adult I went elsewhere after I married the second time. I'm not fond of things like churches owning property beyond that on which the church is located on and perhaps in a larger church ownership of the pastors home. I don't as such think churches with national or world hierarchy are that good of an idea but rather oversight should come from Deacons and Elders. The money should stay within the church and be used at the discretion of pastor and deacons to meet the church and community needs. A local association of a dozen churches to united in such things as joint projects fellowships etc would seem OK.
I've been inside of some of the worlds larger churches with gold inside & priceless art work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mark%27s_Basilica#Mosaics and I've seen small one room churches with plain pane glass windows, pews, a pulpit and an alter. Church used the local creeks for Baptisms. Some due to size and ability of the church itself supported the pastors income fully others the pastors had their own profession and provided their own income.
There are also some pastors who besides having their church ministry are authors. I see nothing wrong with that because it's their labors. Some large successful larger ministries do have a very strict independent board overseeing the business side of it and placing that board in charge of setting their wages etc. Billy Graham had such. For BGA it was a necessity and he insisted it be set up. But hey mention his name and it will start off a firestorm as well. Let'a play condemn Billy.
Sproul JR just like the rest of us will one day answer to GOD. The defrocking if it can be called that was mainly over church doctrine not blaspheme that and an IRS issue between a previous church and new one. if I read right. Other than that it looked like typical found in many churches infighting.
There are lots of allegations from former admirers/supports that something has been amiss since 2006 or so. When you have religious corporations with millions of dollars distributed in salary and benefits to one familiy (including in-laws), it is, at best, a distraction and at worst, corruption and nepotism.
Blogs Right? Yeap Blogs. It was in a blog on the internet so it’s gotta be fact.
I thought this looked familiar - that is a site which I would give ZERO credibility. That is not to give Ligonier a complete pass because there are some issues but this author is highly unlikely to recognize them. This author has a tremendous ability to make mountains out of molehills.
I learned something years ago when I worked for a NPO nursing home & retirement community with a church denomination in the name. The ones who come out rather well compensated were the Board Members and the Administrator. People were paying up too $125K for simply living in a house they would never own {the company retained ownership} plus about $1000 monthly fees. Others would pay $50K up front and several thousand a month for a small apartment. It was Protestant and other than a retired chaplain no church official had stepped through the doors in years.
After he was defrocked, RC Sproul, Jr. and his church applied for membership in the Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches (CREC). I strongly objected to the accusation that the CREC investigation was a sham. I have two friends who were part of that hearing team. In my opinion, these two men have unquestionable integrity and would not have taken part in a sham. A person could disagree with the decision but IMO, not the integrity of the process.
Like all of us, RC Sproul, JR. is a sinner saved by grace.
I too have seen several abuses in the NFP world and many of the organizations had ties to Christian organizations. I find it disgusting. People in the ministry who make huge salaries really trouble me and I generally don't give to such ministries.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:That's subjective, but Paul says it happens. It is an objectively true fact about the Christian experience, that we will experience subjective confirmation of our relationship with God.
(Romans 8:16)
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