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To: af_vet_1981
Those type of sites require e-mail to get into them just like many forms for various innocent venues. E-mail accounts can generally be closed {the throw aways like Yahoo simply by inactivity} Others owned by persons own ISP can be deleted. I have 5 E-mail accounts I think 4 with my ISP two of those which have my name and the rest are Yahoo accounts I use or signing into various, news letters, pollen reports, warranty registrations, etc where I do not wish to be spammed or privacy violated. Anyone looking for trash will be highly disappointed. I don't even give my grocery store my real name for a loyalty card I make one up. Thank you for shopping with us today Mr Fudd.

His public statement should not have been made. The board once they found out should have said RC get counseling now or step down. Sounds like his ISP address was read and someone was privy to it. There's a word for that but today that no longer results in criminal prosecution. We just call it politics now.

How much did you read about him besides the tabloid scandal sites? In December 2011 his wife died. in October 2012 his disabled daughter died. His oldest kid was 18 & youngest was two at the time. Sounds like he was dealing with a lot. Hey I got a swell idea Lets hang him from a tall Oak tree and we'll all feel real good.

As for extravagances related to churches? Personally I think the simpler things are kept in a church the better. I grew up in one that was able to support the pastor full time. As an adult I went elsewhere after I married the second time. I'm not fond of things like churches owning property beyond that on which the church is located on and perhaps in a larger church ownership of the pastors home. I don't as such think churches with national or world hierarchy are that good of an idea but rather oversight should come from Deacons and Elders. The money should stay within the church and be used at the discretion of pastor and deacons to meet the church and community needs. A local association of a dozen churches to united in such things as joint projects fellowships etc would seem OK.

I've been inside of some of the worlds larger churches with gold inside & priceless art work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mark%27s_Basilica#Mosaics and I've seen small one room churches with plain pane glass windows, pews, a pulpit and an alter. Church used the local creeks for Baptisms. Some due to size and ability of the church itself supported the pastors income fully others the pastors had their own profession and provided their own income.

There are also some pastors who besides having their church ministry are authors. I see nothing wrong with that because it's their labors. Some large successful larger ministries do have a very strict independent board overseeing the business side of it and placing that board in charge of setting their wages etc. Billy Graham had such. For BGA it was a necessity and he insisted it be set up. But hey mention his name and it will start off a firestorm as well. Let'a play condemn Billy.

Sproul JR just like the rest of us will one day answer to GOD. The defrocking if it can be called that was mainly over church doctrine not blaspheme that and an IRS issue between a previous church and new one. if I read right. Other than that it looked like typical found in many churches infighting.

93 posted on 09/02/2015 7:17:54 PM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: cva66snipe
Sproul JR just like the rest of us will one day answer to GOD. The defrocking if it can be called that was mainly over church doctrine not blaspheme that and an IRS issue between a previous church and new one. if I read right. Other than that it looked like typical found in many churches infighting.

There are lots of allegations from former admirers/supports that something has been amiss since 2006 or so. When you have religious corporations with millions of dollars distributed in salary and benefits to one familiy (including in-laws), it is, at best, a distraction and at worst, corruption and nepotism.

I've been an admirer of Dr. RC Sproul for years. God has obviously gifted and equipped the man, and he's been faithful to "preach the Word in season and out of season." However given the way that he's responded to the defrocking of his son, RC Sproul Jr, I've grown increasingly disillusioned with Dr. Sproul and must now question the man's wisdom (I'd much rather question his common sense than his integrity).

...

It would seem that Dr. Sproul's priorities for his ministry have been seriously compromised by his willingness to use Ligonier as a form of job security for family members. Salaries and "perks" for family members at Ligonier are lavish and multiple times above and beyond what people of such meager job skills and work ethics could hope to secure outside of Ligonier. Ligonier's credibility has suffered as a result, but it hasn't caused Dr. Sproul to change course.

...

Take for example Ministry Watch. They gave you a "B" transparency rating. Even less impressive they gave you only two stars (out of 5) for efficiency. You come in 308 out of 447 rated organizations. Not impressive. What that means in part, Tim, is that you spend practically everything that comes in. You also squander huge sums on fund raising ($1,638,128) more than twice the percentage (14% of your total income) than the average Christian ministry spends on fund raising. Adding to you dismal efficiency rating you spend significantly more on administrative costs (salaries, etc.) as a percentage of your overall budget than the majority of other Christian ministries. That's not to say that you're at all generous in salaries to non-family members though. We all know that's not true. But you are quite generous with family members.

Tim, I'd made some reference to the Ligonier family "perks." So let's talk about just one example. Isn't it true that you live in the Ligonier "mansion" bought and paid for by Ligonier's donors? Do Ligonier donors understand that the monies they've contributed help to keep you bedded in such lavish digs? Weren't you the one who made the decision to take donor monies and go and buy a mansion with it that you get to live in? Kind of reminiscent of the Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker scandal, don't you think? It's just on a smaller scale. Face it Tim, when your former employees say, "Tim Dick spends money like a drunken sailor" they've got good cause for their concerns.

Tim please don't insult our intelligence by trying to convince us that you'd be capable of finding a job anywhere in the world that would be willing to pay you anywhere near the six-figures that Ligonier pays you. There's only one reason that you make that kind of dough and live in a mansion -- family connections. Without that you'd be living in an Arkansas double-wide.

Oh, and Tim, when are you planning on releasing the Ligonier 2005 Annual Report? You're pretty far behind schedule on that, aren't you? One of your former employees emailed me and said that you'd gone through three CPA's in a matter of a few months. That's a real bad sign Tim.

Frank the folks at Ligonier just don't seem to get it. They seem oblivious to how offensive this is to Reformed Christians. RC Jr is defrocked and the CREC's sham Report doesn't change anything. The CREC hasn't taken RC Jr through any kind of formal process of restoration and reordination. He's still defrocked. It's a big black mark on his record that with some time and a whole lot of public repenting he might be able to see expunged, but where's the evidence that he's ever repented?

Just like the CREC daddy Sproul wants to pretend like nothing's happened at all. Worse yet daddy Sproul went on the record and said that all the charges against his son were fraudulent. Doesn't daddy Sproul now owe the RPCGA a public apology?

Now I'm wondering if daddy Sproul is even calling the shots anymore. Maybe Tim Dick as CEO is the decision maker on RC Jr speaking at the Ligonier conference? But that doesn't seem real likely since it was Tim Dick who fired RC Jr as Editor of Table Talk. They're probably not on real good terms. So it's even more likely that RC Jr's mama Vesta is calling the shots. Vesta is a member of the Board Of Directors. All that nepotism is just bound to cause a lot of foolish compromising.

Regardless of who's making the decisions the whole thing just stinks and it makes me very sad. Dr. Sproul should know better. Dr. Sproul DOES know better.

95 posted on 09/02/2015 7:59:02 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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