Why I am No Longer a Dispensationalist

Credo House ^ | May 21, 2015 | C. Michael Patton

[OK Sun]

My Dispensational Upbringing

I have been taught Dispensationalism from my mother’s womb. I was born in a dispensational environment. It was assumed at my church to be a part of the Gospel. There was never another option presented. It made sense. It helped me put together the Scriptures in a way that cleared up so much confusion. And, to be honest, the emphasis on the coming tribulation, current events that prove the Bible’s prophecy, the fear that the Antichrist may be alive today (who is he?) was all quite exciting. But what might be the biggest attraction for me is the charts! Oh how I love charts. I think in charts. And dispensationalism is a theology of charts!

Making Fun of Dispensationalism

The first time I came across someone who was not a Dispensationalist was in 1999. I am not kidding. It was the first time! I don’t think I even knew if there was another view. It was when I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary (the bastion of Dispensationalism) and I was swimming with some guys who were at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Once they discovered I was a dispensationalist, they giggled and snickered. They made fun of the rapture, the sacrificial system during the millennium, and the mark of the beast (which, at that time, was some type of barcode). It was as if they patted me on the head and said “It’s okay . . . nice little dispensationalist.” I was so angry. I was humiliated. I was a second-rate theologian. They were “Covenantalists” (whatever that was). But they were the cool guys who believed in the historic Christian faith and I was the cultural Christian, believing in novel ideas.

[imardmd1]

I don’t know. I read about Dispensationalism on wiki, but it didn’t help me understand exactly what it is.

Try this instead:

===============================

O O O	———————	GOD'S	DEALINGS	WITH	MAN	———————	O O O
DOCTRINE	MORALITY	RESPONSIBILITY	PROMISE	LAW – ISRAEL	LAW – ISRAEL	GRACE–	RIGHTEOUSNESS
				THEOCRACY	KINGDOM	CHURCH	AND PEACE
———————	———————	———————	———————	———————	———————	———————	—————————
1. COVENANT SPHERE	ADAMIC	NOACHIC	ABRAHAMIC	MOSAIC	DAVIDIC	NEW	EVERLASTING
	Gen. 1:28,29	Gen. 9:1-17;	Gen. 12:1-3;	Ex. 19 – 30	2 Sam. 7:15-19;	Mt. 26:26-28;	Jer. 32:37-40
	Gen. 2:15-17	Gen. 6:18	Gen. 15:1-16,18		2 Sam. 23:5	Heb. 8:6-13;	Ezek. 16:60
						Heb. 10:5-10	Heb. 13:20
2. SIN	Gen. 3:1-15	Gen. 9:20-25	Gen. 16:1-6	Ex. 32:1-14	1 Kings 10:28	1 Cor. 15:34	NO SIN PERMITTED
					cf. Deut. 17:16	Phil. 3:17-21
3. WICKEDNESS	Gen. 6:5,12,13	Gen. 11:6	Gen. 37:19-36	Judges (entire)	1 Kings 11:1-10	Rom. 1:21-32	NO WICKEDNESS
(Evil Imaginations)			Gen. 38:12-26	1 Samuel (entire)
4. TOTAL DEPRAVITY	Gen. 6:12	Jos. 24:2,15	Ex. 1:22	1 Sam. 8:6-7	Jer. 11:7-10	Jude 8-23	NO DEPRAVITY
					Isa. 1:4-20	2 Pet. 2:1-20
5. PRONOUNCEMENT	Gen. 6:13	Gen 11:7	Gen. 15:13-16	Jer. 7:21-26	Jer. 15:1-14	Heb. 10:26-31	Rev. 20:6
					Jer. 7:25-34	Lk. 18:19
					Jer. 25:4-11
6. JUDGMENT	Flood	Babel	Bondage	Bondage	Captivity	Candlestick	Rev. 20:7-15
	1656 yrs. AC	1758 AC	to Egyptians	to Philistines	in Babylon	removed
	Gen. 7:1-8:14	Gen. 11:8,9			to Rome	Rev. 2:5
	esp. Gen. 7:11					Rev. 3:16
7. NEXT COVENANT	NOAH	ABRAM	MOSES	DAVID	CHRIST	CHRIST AS KING	ETERNITY
			Abram 2095 AC	Moses 2510 AC	David 3065 AC
					Lk. 1:26-33
O O O	———————	———————	———————	———————	———————	———————	O O O

[caww]

....”Was this the work of your mother, of you or of God?”....

It was a co-operative event for my mother and myself “with” God.....I don’t see it as “a work”.....rather God’s ‘calling’....and his “drawing” me to himself as He does for all mankind.

I believe it’s ‘by his spirit’ He prepared my heart and mind to heed His calling with the choice to ignore or act on ‘seeking’ Him as I did or not............ and to one day hear the salvation message...giving me the choice to believe that message or not.

I think, (As Spurgeon stated)...that “free grace come to lead free will.”

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” ......Romans 10:13

God called
I called back
It was a co-operative happening.

[caww]

I think for me it is enough to know there is a Hell...a place of torment....that there is a Heaven... a place with Jesus....and that only through Jesus can we escape the hell our sins are deserving of.

As to the various understandings of what defines Hell....Hades....Sheol...and other variations of the word. I see that ‘none’ of them mean a temporary holding cell for Christians.

[imardmd1]

I see that ‘none’ of them mean a temporary holding cell for Christians. . . .

No one said anything about a "temporary holding cell for Christians." Until Jesus paid the price to assuage The God's wrath against sins, no human could enter His heavenly residence. They could only go to Sheol/Hades/Hell, until Jesus opened the door to Heaven, and brought both Paradise/Abraham's Bosom as well as its inhabitants with Himself and joined it to heaven. Now, since Jesus' ascension, there are only fiery Hell and Heaven-Paradise as final resting places of the souls of eternal beings.

You'll find this an interesting topic if you're willing to study it out.

[CynicalBear]

First of all let me say that your reference to "the HD" by which I assume you mean HyperDispensationalist then referencing the post by smvoice is less then open and causes me concern.

I don't have time to address your entire tome but will say that you seem to missing the point of what smvoice is pointing out. I'll use one example. In your response you reference Acts 13 in an attempt to make a point that Paul also presented the death of Christ as bad news. HE DID NOT. He simply reiterated what had happened then made this comment. “We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors 33he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:. He then went on to say “Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses..

And it's interesting that you referenced Acts 13 because we have in that chapter an example of what Peter was preaching at Pentecost.

Acts 13:24 Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel.

Peter was preaching essentially the same message as John the Baptist was.

As I said in an earlier post to you. I think you are not taking into consideration the time-line of Peter's message. He clearly changed after Paul was introduced and surely did after the incident with Cornelius.

It seems to me you are being needlessly harsh while missing some points yourself.

[redleghunter]

So while dispensationalists do believe God interacted with His creation in different ways at different times (dispensations) we do not believe that we are saved in different ways at different times.

Thank you for stating the traditional dispensational position.

[Elsie]

As Moses instructed us:

Actually; Moses instructed the Jews...

[HarleyD]

You are saying if we had free will we would keep His commandments

Yes. Perhaps we should start with a definition of "free will". Isn't it to voluntarily to make decisions? If we have "free will" then one has to ask why don't we keep God's commandments? Moses told us they're not that hard to keep.

Our nature prior to God is bent to do evil. Once we come to a saving knowledge of God, we no longer practice sin. We become slaves to righteousness. But to think that we "freely" make an educational choice to sin or to live a godly life is not logical. Actually-it's rubbish. God expects us to act as His Son and He has given us His law, His Holy Spirit, His Word. And He has bend our will to want to be obedient to Him to the praise of His glory.

We have no excuse when we sin except to acknowledge our shameful behavior knowing that God understands our condition. We choose to sin because of the lust that still remains in our hearts. We don't freely make choices to sin except to be led away by our passions.

Now if you have a better definition of "free will" I'd love to hear it. But it is never used in scripture. There is God's will and there is man's will.

[HarleyD]

Actually; Moses instructed the Jews...

2Ti 3:16 All scripture (including Moses*) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

*Comment added by HarleyD with God's approval. :O)

[HarleyD]

I believe it’s ‘by his spirit’ He prepared my heart and mind to heed His calling

I have found within every testimony, if one were to parse them, there is always a phrase such as this. If God prepared your heart, then your positive response to God was because God prepared your heart. God initiated it. You responded.

As for the rest of mankind, He calls but there is no evidence that He prepared their hearts.

[MHGinTN]

Faithful is He that calleth you for He will also do it. ... Many are called but few are chosen. ... Of the many called, why so few chosen? ... Because so few will let Him do it. [Thanks to Maj. Ian Thomas for that syllogism which I heard for the first time decades ago at Shades Mountain Independent Church in Birmingham, AL]

[redleghunter]

And as explained before, both Peter and Paul promise salvation to those who believe with repentant faith and profess the Lord Jesus who died and rose again, (Acts 2:38; 10:43; 13:39; Rm. 10:9-13) and there is no essential difference btwn moving the neurons in one's brain in believing, and the tongue in confessing, and the legs in doing the same in baptism. All are volitional responses enabled and motivated by God in His grace, apart from which man could not and would not believe, yet these do not merit justification.

While God also rewards faith in recognition of its effects, (Heb. 10:35) which character and works "justify" one as being a believer (Heb. 6:9) and fit to be rewarded, (Rv. 3:4) yet both the ability and motivation is of God, and the only thing man really deserves on his own accord is damnation. To God be the glory.

By God's Grace well stated and concluded.

[caww]

....”As for the rest of mankind, He calls but there is no evidence that He prepared their hearts”.....

Perhaps they simply said no....so you wouldn’t find evidence.

[caww]

In my view OT saints went immediately to Heaven when they died, just like believers do today......The righteous who died before the coming of Christ are now in God’s presence. As to whether they were in heaven before He came, or in some other place of blessing, the Bible does not ‘clearly’ say.

I do believe that everyone is saved through Christ. He died for the sins of the world. For OT Saints it was future. For us, it is past, but it is still through Christ. It was His death, His sacrifice. It atoned for the sins of the OT saints as well as the NT saints.

I realize also that people differ on how they see the saints of the OT after death.....we’ve seen presented that in Ephesians 4:8 when it says,... “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men”?....So I realize some have taken this “host of captives” to refer to the OT saints who have finally been released from their state of limbo and allowed to enter Paradise.

But I tend to lean to the idea that it was satan and his demonic angels who had just been defeated through Christ’s death and resurrection, and ‘who were then’, though figuratively, led in chains as Christ’s captives in His triumphal victory march into heaven.... They are being flaunted as the spoils of victory..........that Jesus proclaimed his triumphant victory over his enemies, even before the resurrection takes place.... He was announcing the truth of Colossians 2:15 where it states.... “And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.”

[MHGinTN]

Of the things that God cannot do, one is most appropriate to note here. God cannot force you to love Him. That is under the sovereign will of man, each boy, girl, man or woman. Thereby we know we have free will, that we can choose to love God or not.

Could Jesus force Peter to love Him after the crucifixion? No. Did Jesus ask Peter if he loved Him? Yes, and then gave him a specific job to do. Jesus, being God with us, knew Peter's future. Back in Matthew 16:16 Jesus asked Peter something and based upon the heart of Peter, Jesus Promised him the keys to something very important.

The Angel Gabriel spoke to Mary and informed her that she was about to take on an astonishing job. If she did not have free will the offer would not have been made ... think about it. God does not force us to love. Mary loved God to such a degree that God chose her to bring His incarnation into the world!

God cannot force us to love Him. It is of our free will that we choose His offered Grace, because we suddenly realize we are loved and want to love Him back.

[MHGinTN]

God cannot force us to love him, and thereby we know we have free will, to love Him because He loves us, or reject His love.

And in our day there are so very many who have chosen to not love God but love the flesh and the things that please it rather than love God and be heir to His Promises.

An astonishing characteristic of this age is that some will even admit that they believe God cannot lie and that whatever God Promises will come to pass, yet when you show them what God Promises they choose to argue, using all sorts of demonically brilliant lines of doubting, usually anchored to pride of self.

One of the most famous lies is the antithetical argument that Jesus's work on the cross requires us to finish the task to 'earn' salvation, earn God's Garce! As if a man can force God to love him! You show such a person Jesus's own declaration on the Cross and they still wiggle into some pride-based argument of the necessity for their works to finish what He declared 'tetelestai' over.

You show such an one that Jesus said it is finished and they will launch into some sophistry regarding vagueness or ambiguity of the declaration, knowing but choosing to ignore that Jesus was there on that Cross for a single Universe shaking purpose, not to fulfill part of some vagueness. Looming there before them all the time is the simplest action God could desire from them, to just say thank you, Jesus, and receive the bounty in God's Promises. But their pride and selfishness will not accept even so Great a Promise.

Someone should write a book listing the many lines of lies used to reject so Great a Promise, so great a witness, so great a Heavenly offer, and include the 'why' for the foolishness in each argument. ... Oops, there are such books already, including the bible stories, yet still 'they' spit in God's face now.

[Elsie]

Galatians 3:15
Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.

2Ti 3:16
All scripture...

No comment needed.

[HarleyD]

Of the many called, why so few chosen? ... Because so few will let Him do it.

According to scripture our Lord chose us and ordained us:

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Maj. Ian Thomas was indeed a wonderful man and greatly used by the Lord. However, so was Calvin and Luther.

Protestants need to review their confessions. One should not confuse God using a person with sloppy theology. After all, God used a donkey to admonish Balaam.

[HarleyD]

Perhaps they simply said no....so you wouldn’t find evidence.

On the contrary. Paul was not seeking the Lord and yet the Lord revealed Himself to Paul.

This is the way all are saved. There is no evidence of anyone coming to God on their own and this doctrine was considered heresy by the Catholic Church.

[MHGinTN]

So you’re saying that God can force you to love Him?