Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun
I have been taught Dispensationalism from my mother’s womb. I was born in a dispensational environment. It was assumed at my church to be a part of the Gospel. There was never another option presented. It made sense. It helped me put together the Scriptures in a way that cleared up so much confusion. And, to be honest, the emphasis on the coming tribulation, current events that prove the Bible’s prophecy, the fear that the Antichrist may be alive today (who is he?) was all quite exciting. But what might be the biggest attraction for me is the charts! Oh how I love charts. I think in charts. And dispensationalism is a theology of charts!
The first time I came across someone who was not a Dispensationalist was in 1999. I am not kidding. It was the first time! I don’t think I even knew if there was another view. It was when I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary (the bastion of Dispensationalism) and I was swimming with some guys who were at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Once they discovered I was a dispensationalist, they giggled and snickered. They made fun of the rapture, the sacrificial system during the millennium, and the mark of the beast (which, at that time, was some type of barcode). It was as if they patted me on the head and said “It’s okay . . . nice little dispensationalist.” I was so angry. I was humiliated. I was a second-rate theologian. They were “Covenantalists” (whatever that was). But they were the cool guys who believed in the historic Christian faith and I was the cultural Christian, believing in novel ideas.
(Excerpt) Read more at reclaimingthemind.org ...
Indeed, so mush gets opened up that each of us may not have seen earlier. The postings from daniel1212 and Springfield Reformer, as well as Alamo_Girl and Elsie, and Cynical Bear, and Tennessee Nana, and Iscool, and caww, and xzins, and ... well, you get the gist, these posters regale my soul with better insights. In essence, we are doing the ‘gathering together of yourselves’ recommended in Scriptures.
Was the parable of Lazarus and the rich man a true literal story from the mouth of a true and reliable authority? If so, how many times does it have to be repeated for you to believe in it?
Thank you.
I may not always agree with other posters, but the discussion is almost always fruitful.
I know when I first started reading the religion forum threads I associated myself with the Reformed. I even condemned Dispensationalists, but over time I began to see that they were right about a lot of topics I really hadn't explored. But it was when I did an in depth study of eschatology that I realized I am a Dispensationalist.
I still consider most of the Reformed FRiends and even if we disagree about something I know we are Brothers and Sisters in Christ and in the end that's all that matters.
When I said: “Doesn’t God give everyone a measure of faith?”, I was referring to Romans 12:3.
So, if it is directed to those that have already received the gospel, then Romans (as well as the rest of the epistles) should be read in that context.
**Unbelievers do not have faith.**
Even believers can be told that they have no faith, as the Lord told his faithless disciples, at times of their testing.
God puts a measure of faith in a person, but free will can reject it. From the beginning, calling on the name of the Lord, is a desire that has been passed along through all generations. The Greeks had the altar “TO THE UNKNOWN GOD”, showing the desire to seek some sort of God. But, just as the seed that falls on the wayside is plucked up by the birds, so does the devil steal faith from souls, with his many devices.
Then you were not reading the HD who contended that Peter was preaching salvation by a gospel which demanded works to be forgiven/saved, and never preached that Christ died for our sins as in the gospel of the grace of God, but preached "the gospel of the kingdom" until after Paul enlightened him.
And as Paul says in Gal. 1:6-9 that there is no other valid gospel, and those who preach any other one are accused, thus Peter would be if he ever preached what he did in Acts after Paul supposedly enlightened him.
See my response to which here .
The fact that you responded to that calling illustrates your eyes and ears being opened to respond. Everyday God calls to people but most refuse to come. Why God opened our eyes and ears and not others is a mystery.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Yes, I agree with your interpretation but is Sheol of the Jews is much different from the separation of the sheeps from the goats that Christ talked about? I'm not sure the idea has changed over time.
Not all Jews agreed with the resurrection. There were two views at the time of Christ-those who believed in the resurrection of the dead and those Jews who did not. Christ blankly told those who did not believe in the resurrection that they were wrong.
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
God puts a measure of faith in a person, but free will can reject it.
Yes, I and Augustine have heard this argument before. There is no scripture to support this nor is there anything as "free will". If a Christian has "free will" then why don't they freely obey to do the things that God has told them?
...”eyes and ears being opened to respond”....
Well I do think that having a mom who took me to church and sunday school prepared me to hear and want to know God in my later years....I learned at a tender age that the man Jesus loved me even if I really didn’t understand who he was or about him.
There seems to be a work God does when we are exposed to him even when we don’t have the understanding. I say this because I certainly didn’t oppose these teachings as a child.
So in my mind I believe the call to our hearts and minds begins long before our awareness of Jesus....and that call goes out to all...responding is where it becomes a choice on our part.
Because so long as you are in a physical body you have the nature inherited from Adam, a nature which is nailed the same cross of Christ. A new nature is what the spark of the Holy Spirit ‘grows’ in you as day by day you faiths in His life in your human spirit. You are a new creation hide with Christ, hidden/sheltered from Satan, sealed unto the day of redemption, which for Church Age Christians is the Day of the Rapture.
That ‘faiths’ should be ‘ faithe’ the verb form of faith/belief from the Greek. Typing on a little screen with big fingers, sorry.
I’m not convinced that represents “where” people go ......yes it’s true what is written but I don’t see that entirely as explaining just what Abrahams Bosom means. ..or where it means except a separation between the two spoken of.
**Faith comes from what is heard.**
Absolutely! That is what Adam passed to Cain, Abel, and Seth. Then Seth to his offspring, and so on.
**If a Christian has “free will” then why don’t they freely obey to do the things that God has told them?**
To many people, a banana split is preferable to a caesars salad.
Why has the ‘beat’ become the dominant aspect of gospel music in many church houses?
Acts 2:38 is God’s will. Why is it ignored, or held in low regard, by many churches claiming to be Christian?
bump
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Albert Barnes:
Luke 16:23
In hell - The word here translated hell (“Hades”) means literally a dark, obscure place; the place where departed spirits go, but especially the place where “wicked” spirits go. See the Job_10:21-22 notes; Isa_14:9 note. The following circumstances are related of it in this parable:
1. It is “far off” from the abodes of the righteous. Lazarus was seen "afar off."
2. It is a place of torment.
3. There is a great gulf fixed between that and heaven, Luk_16:26.
4. The suffering is great. It is represented by "torment" in a flame, Luk_16:24.
5. There will be no escape from it, Luk_16:26.
The word “hell” here means, therefore, that dark, obscure, and miserable place, far from heaven, where the wicked shall be punished forever.
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"Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness" (Job 10:22 AV) (infrared?).
"Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations"(Isa. 14:9 AV).
Here 'Hell' is:
Strong's number = H7585
שׁאל / שׁאול she'ôl
Brown/Driver/Briggs lexicon Definition:
1) sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
. . 1a) the underworld
. . 1b) Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
. . . 1b1) place of no return
. . . 1b2) without praise of God
. . . 1b3) wicked sent there for punishment
. . . 1b4) righteous not abandoned to it
. . . 1b5) of the place of exile (figuratively)
. . . 1b6) of extreme degradation in sin
Part of Speech: noun feminine
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The Hell of Luke 16:23 is Hades in the Greek:
Strong's number = G86
ᾅδης
hadēs
Thayer's lexicon Definition:
1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
3) later use of this word: the grave, death, hell
Part of Speech: noun proper locative
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Adam Clarke (re the rich man):
Scarcely had he entered the place of his punishment, when he lifted up his eyes on high; and what must his surprise be, to see himself separated from God, and to feel himself tormented in that flame! Neither himself, nor friends, ever suspected that the way in which he walked could have led to such a perdition.
Then it was you that made the decision. Is that correct?
BINGO!!! You win the prize. And, as you have a nature inherited from Adam you do not have "free will". Our will is rebellious towards God's will. So, one can do God's will or they can do their will.
True "free will" would mean that we could choose to obey God 24/7. The fact that we don't illustrates to us our rebellion towards the things of God and our need to depend on His guiding help each and every day. This is God's grace to help us through our weaknesses.
Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
The fact of the matter is that we desire to run after those "banana splits". So much for "free will".
Let me see if I have this straight. You are saying if we had free will we would keep His commandments, so we have Adam’s nature so we don’t have free will? Are you seriously saying THAT?
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