Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

Charisma News ^ | 12/3/14 | Mark Andrews

[marshmallow]

"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.

On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).

On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.

It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."

Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."

If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?

"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."

To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....

[daniel1212]

History (even the Catholic version of it) has shown that the various books of the NT were circulating thru the early churches BEFORE the 'catholic church' was even formed.

You forgot that, in all seriousness and sincerity, RCs see that same wafer-worshiping, demigoddess praying, infallible caesario-papacy, salvation by merit preaching, etc, organization to be the same church as that of the NT church, though it is basically invisible therein.

[Syncro]

Very fitting scripture.

If I didn’t under the tactic, I would be gobsmacked that anyone would deny the plain truth and claim Pharisaical righteousness and expect to have any credibility.

[Syncro]

Is that a pope-ette or some cross-dresser from Castro street?

[CynicalBear]

>>Why do it when all you had to do is remove the idols, cleanse the building and consecrate it to proper Christian use?<<

Don't try to explain or excuse it away to me. Argue with God if you wish.

>>The Catholci Church has NEVER, EVER said it incorporated paganism.<<

“We need not shrink from admitting that candles, like incense and lustral water, were commonly employed in pagan worship and the rites paid to the dead. But the Church from a very early period took them into her service, just as she adopted many other things indifferent in themselves, which seemed proper to enhance the splendor of religious ceremonial. We must not forget that most of these adjuncts to worship, like music, lights, perfumes, ablutions, floral decorations, canopies, fans, screens, bells, vestments etc. were not identified with any idolatrous cult in particular; but they were common to almost all cults” (Catholic Encyclopedia, III, 246.)

“When we give or receive Christmas gifts; or hang green wreaths in our homes and churches, how many of us know that we are probably observing pagan customs...the god, Woden, in Norse Mythology, descends upon the earth yearly between December 25th and January 6th to bless mankind...But pagan though they be, they are beautiful customs. They help inspire us with the spirit of 'good will to men', even as the sublime service of our Church reminds us of the ‘peace on earth’ which the babe of Bethlehem came to bestow” (Externals of the Catholic Church, 140).

[af_vet_1981]

You forgot that, in all seriousness and sincerity, RCs see that same wafer-worshiping, demigoddess praying, infallible caesario-papacy, salvation by merit preaching, etc, organization to be the same church as that of the NT church, though it is basically invisible therein.

Did you assemble in Messiah's name today ? Which denomination was it ? Is this post inspired by the same spirit as that of your assembly ?

[Elsie]

I trust you would not willingly or knowingly post things about other people which have no factual basis.

That's why the word SOME is so special!

One can post all KINDS of things if this qualifier is inserted into a sentence!

[Elsie]

“You know the heart and soul and mind of all 1.2 billion Catholics?”

Do you?

I've heard that Mary gets to hear from 12,000,000 Catholics daily.

Is this true?

[Elsie]

False. There is not one Church teaching which says we should worship Mary. None.

Great job; Vlad!

You've called FALSE! on something that wasn't claimed.

No 'teaching' of worshipping Mary was mentioned; just the evidence of it being DONE was presented to the FR jury.

[Syncro]

in the last year or two I caught two or three anti-Catholics here lying

And still I continue to be falsely accused. Wonder what that would be called?

If I were prone to pettiness, I would document it all on my profile page.

But naw, it's pretty clear on this thread what is correct and what is wrong. No reason to hold a grudge and whine about it. Me hold a grudge? Nope, I just like to shine the light of Jesus into the darkness.

All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.--Proverbs 16:2

There is a kind who is pure in his own eyes, Yet is not washed from his filthiness.--Proverbs 30:12

And then here is a necessary mission for Christians:

But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.--Hebrews 3:13

[Elsie]

And? I should have said interpretations, but what is your point?

Says the man who NEVER posts anything wrong.

[Elsie]

If anti-Catholics just wouldn’t be dishonest from the beginning, they wouldn’t get caught in their dishonesty.

No names mentioned; move along smartly now...

[Syncro]

Quite a Carnucopia you gots going there...

[Elsie]

I am not familiar with the term "fast Mary," nor do I grasp what it has to do with the explanation of the Lord Jesus being one Divine Person with two natures, divine and human.

There are SO many relies in this thread; you may have missed it.

A lot of stuff is getting MISSED; BTW.

---

Fast Mary...

Let's try some easy math:

There are approximately 1.2 billion Catholics world wide;

If merely 1% of them  'ask' Mary for help just once each day;

that means that 12 million separate prayers are headed Mary's direction every day.

Given that there are 86,400 seconds per day... (24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds)

...that means that Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!

Purty good fer someone NOT 'divine'!

[Elsie]

It is beyond the limits of decency to insult Christ’s mother Mary as a “Frigid Wife.”

Oh?

Then WHY does your chosen religion choose to describe her this way?

What POSSIBLE CHRISTIAN reason could she POSSIBLY have for NEVER having consummated her marriage to Joseph?

[boatbums]

Okay..before he put on a “meat suit”. Better? ;o)

[Elsie]

I'd rather upset a country than God, the One who commanded:

Romans 8:1-13 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

1 There is now therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh.

² For the law of the spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, hath delivered me from the law of sin and of death.

³ For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh; God sending his own Son, in the likeness of sinful fleshand of sin, hath condemned sin in the flesh;

⁴ That the justification of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit.

⁵ For they that are according to the flesh, mind the things that are of the flesh; but they that are according to the spirit, mind the things that are of the spirit.

⁶ For the wisdom of the fleshis death; but the wisdom of the spirit is life and peace.

⁷ Because the wisdom of the fleshis an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be.

⁸ And they who are in the flesh, cannot please God.

⁹ But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

¹⁰ And if Christ be in you, the body indeed is dead, because of sin; but the spirit liveth, because of justification.

¹¹ And if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead, dwell in you; he that raised up Jesus Christ from the dead, shall quicken also your mortal bodies, because of his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

¹² Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

¹³ For if you live according to the flesh, you shall die: but if by the Spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live., let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 

 

 

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood...

[Elsie]

So we SHOW a prayer to Mary; and instead of trying to defend the heresy contained in it; a prayer to GOD is presented and defended.

Cute!

[af_vet_1981]

The words kata and holes are two different words. Kata meaning "throughout" and holes meaning all or the whole. When they are used regarding the assemblies they are referring to multiple assemblies not just one organization as in Acts 9.

Acts 9:31
• Kata = with respect to
• Holos = the whole
• kata holos => katholikos => catholic

[Middle English catholik, universally accepted, from Old French catholique, from Latin catholicus, universal, from Greek katholikos, from katholou, in general : kat-, kata-, down, along, according to; see cata- + holou (from neuter genitive of holos, whole; see sol- in Indo-European roots).]

[Elsie]

Aye, Lassie; I did now!

[Elsie]

narses Appreciation Day