Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

Charisma News ^ | 12/3/14 | Mark Andrews

[marshmallow]

"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.

On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).

On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.

It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."

Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."

If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?

"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."

To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....

[vladimir998]

“Some things that call themselves ‘protestant’ NEED to have folks saved from!”

All things. All people.

[CynicalBear]

It must be in there. We were told right here in this thread that if we wanted to know what Catholics believe to just read the Bible.

[vladimir998]

“Like 1425???”

What about it?

[vladimir998]

“And you know this how?”

Already show in another post. Look it up.

“You know the heart and soul and mind of all 1.2 billion Catholics?”

Do you?

[CynicalBear]

Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you, Springfield, for this link to the info on Nestorius, it's very interesting and relevant to the discussion.

I understand that the Catholic Church has held discussions with the major supposedly "Nestorian" Churches (Assyrian Church of the East, Chaldean Syrian Church) and reached some sort of conclusion that the whole theological brouhaha was based on translation problems. They were using words that were not exactly synonymous to signify identical things, or the same word to signify different things.

A path to Church Unity and full communion supposedly opened up: it may have been blasted now as whole communities have been shattered and scattered into exile by the bloody hammer-blows of jihad.

I need to learn more about it.

I was just starting Contra Errores Graecorum the other day (in English, of course) and I see where Aquinas is saying to the Greeks (13th century) that a whole lot of the problem may be down to the fact that "substantia" (Latin) doesn't mean exactly the same thing as "ousios" (Greek). Kind of odd, and sad, that millennia-long catastrophic splits in the Body of Christ could have alienated Christian people because of ambiguous or misunderstood terminology.

Course we see it up close and personal, too, per hundreds and hundreds of neuralgic comments every day in the Religion Forum.

The demons are busy.

[vladimir998]

“Repeatedly insisting itDOESN’T exist when there’s been TON’s evidence that it DOES!”

False. There is not one Church teaching which says we should worship Mary. None.

“ wasting time”

And even that is not worship – or else being at FR dealing with anti-Catholics who falsely claim one thing is another would be an amazing worship session.

“The Assumption of Mary...”

Not all truths are explicitly in scripture and scripture nevers says they need to be.

“Qualifiers are our friends; right Vlad??”

Feel free to prove me wrong any time soon. Will you fail?

“Mary is NOT in Heaven at this point.”

If you ask your fellow anti-Catholics about that many will disagree with you.

“Me; too!”

Great. We agree on something.

“You really should have documented those 1,000’s of paper cuts that wounded you so grievously!”

No wounds on me. “To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation.” (John Henry Newman, Lecture 4. True Testimony Insufficient for the Protestant View)

“#352”

And?

“You appear adequate to me!”

Some anti-Catholics can’t be roused from their “sleep”.

“#1283 As I already showed the Church knows there are multiple translations to Matthew 16 in the ECFs.”

And? I should have said interpretations, but what is your point?

“#1283 As I already showed the Church knows there are multiple translations to Matthew 16 in the ECFs.”

And? I should have said interpretations, but what is your point?

“#1283 As I already showed the Church knows there are multiple translations to Matthew 16 in the ECFs.”

And? I should have said interpretations, but what is your point?

“#1283 As I already showed the Church knows there are multiple translations to Matthew 16 in the ECFs.”

And? I should have said interpretations, but what is your point?

[CynicalBear]

The "starter" which they call "the bug" is simply 2 cups of water, 2 Tbl of sugar (but I have found that if you add a teaspoon of molasses as well it works better) and 2 Tbls of grated ginger. Do not use metal to either keep it in or stir it. Glass jar and wooden spoons. Leave the top open with just cheese cloth to keep bugs out. Stir it twice a day and each day add the sugar and grated ginger. after about two days you should see bubbles forming. Now boil 1 gallon of water with 3 cups of sugar and add about a half cup or so of grated ginger. Let boil for about 10 minutes then cool and strain out the ginger. When it reaches room temp add 1 cup of the strained ginger bug to the gallon of water and pour into 2 2 litre bottles and put caps on tight. Let stand at room temp at least two weeks. You will notice the bottles get hard like the ones you get soda in. That's when I put them in the fridge and use.

There are lots of videos on youtube showing how also.

[vladimir998]

“Bwahahahahahaha! There is none so blind as he who will not see.”

“To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation.” (John Henry Newman, Lecture 4. True Testimony Insufficient for the Protestant View)

[Mrs. Don-o]

"The first time the word [Catholic] was used was long after John had died."

Same is true of the terms "Evangelical," "Reformed," "Calvinist," "Fundamentalist," "Orthodox", "Bible Fellowship," "Non-Denominational," "Pentecostal," "Foursquare Gospel," "Primitive Baptist," or any other kind of church.

Before the above-mentioned churches came into existence, where there were just Christians, baptized and united in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, people naturally referred to the church "as a whole."

KATA HOLOS.

"Kataholos" of course translates into ... you know...

[Mrs. Don-o]

"The first time the word [Catholic] was used was long after John had died."

Same is true of the terms "Evangelical," "Reformed," "Calvinist," "Fundamentalist," "Orthodox", "Bible Fellowship," "Non-Denominational," "Pentecostal," "Foursquare Gospel," "Primitive Baptist," or any other kind of church.

Before the above-mentioned churches came into existence, where there were just Christians, batized and united in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, people naturally referred to the church "as a whole."

KATA HOLOS.

"Kataholos" of course translates into ... you know...

[vladimir998]

“In the last year or two it has been proven that multiple priests have been guilty of paedophilia.”

Looks like I struck a nerve. If anti-Catholics just wouldn’t be dishonest from the beginning, they wouldn’t get caught in their dishonesty. And then the like-minded would not post things completely unrelated to that in desperate looking attempts to change the issue. FR would be a better place all around.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I am not familiar with the term "fast Mary," nor do I grasp what it has to do with the explanation of the Lord Jesus being one Divine Person with two natures, divine and human.

Wait... what?

Do I just need coffee?

Or are you sitting at the keyboard, fingers poised, to lift this from obscurity and make the meaning of it clear?

While, awaiting, I'm going for the coffee :o)

[Mrs. Don-o]

You should ask the Admin Moderator to delete this. It is beyond the limits of decency to insult Christ’s mother Mary as a “Frigid Wife.”

[Mrs. Don-o]

Spice cake... elderberries...

The two might be quite a combo.

[nicmarlo]

There will be more Catholics who have accepted Christ as their Savior than “expected” by Catholics OR Protestants and less than Catholics think will be the case due to the fact that the Holy Spirit is more powerful than the destructive dogma of that religious system

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you, CB. Excellent Scripture.

[CynicalBear]

I'm in 7b but you can grow it where you are. It's not that fussy either. Likes good loamy soil and plenty of water but not soggy wet. I dig mine up because I use a lot of it but I've heard you can just leave some in the ground and mulch it during the winter and it will just regrow in the spring. It's like growing day lilies or something like that. The rhizomes just keep spreading. Also the second year it gets pretty flowers.

I started with just buying ginger from the grocery store and cutting it like you would when planting potatoes. You will see little "nodules" on the ginger. That is where the tops grow from. Make sure each peace has one or two of those when you plant them. Each piece I plant usually gives me about 1/2 lb of ginger or better.

[CynicalBear]

With all due respect you need to check how many time Protestants have been ridiculed by Catholics about that “personal relationship”. Those comments, to me at least, would be a “factual basis” for making the comment I did.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I wrote this in different form to see if I understood it correctly, and found a spot where I had a question:

GINGER ALE

Starter (“Ginger Bug”)

2 cups of water
2 Tbs sugar
1 tsp molasses
2 Tbs of grated ginger

Do not use metal to either keep it in or stir it. Glass jar and wooden spoons. Leave the top open with just cheese cloth to keep bugs out. Stir it twice a day and each day add the sugar and grated ginger. After about two days you should see bubbles forming.

(This is where I have the question. Do you mix all the ingredients together on Day 1, and then just stir it twice on Day One and Day 2, OR do you add half the sugar, molasses and ginger to the water on Day One, and add the other half on Day 2?]

To make 4 liters

1 gallon of water
3 cups of sugar
1/2 cup grated ginger
1 cup strained Ginger Bug
2 two-liter bottles

Boil water, sugar, and grated ginger for about 10 minutes then cool and strain out the ginger. When it reaches room temp add 1 cup of the strained Ginger Bug to the gallon of water and pour into two 2 litre bottles and put caps on tight. Let stand at room temp at least two weeks. You will notice the bottles get hard like the ones you get soda in. That's when I put them in the fridge and use.