Posted on 10/13/2011 5:52:58 PM PDT by Gamecock
I subscribe to a Mormon apologetic Newsletter titled FAIR (Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research).
Normally it falls into my junk email account and I don't even open it, but today I had a few minutes and scanned the latest offering and was stunned to see the hypocrisy of the authors. Please note the entire email is posted below.
This particular issue has a great deal of whining about those mean Christians who make the spurious claim that Mormons are not Christians, but are a cult.
A couple of examples:
-"Mormons are a cult" epithets into the national spotlight. In his "On Faith" commentary this week, Church Public Affairs managing director Michael Otterson suggests why people make such claims and shares his own experience of being labeled not Christian.
Calling Mormonism a cult is old hat, and the voters are yawning.
-Texas Gov. Rick Perry's minister ally Robert Jeffress might think Mitt Romney's church is a cult, but a new documentary on the presidency and Mormonism suggests that Romney could snag the nation's top job despite the religious feud between Christians.
-....the "cult" of Mormonism means that you raise a solid family, work hard, make money and do good for the greater community of mankind, then by all means pass the Kool-Aid.
-It seems just too petty and small for a country as big as America to have. America, as a melting pot of many cultures and many beliefs, is supposed to be more tolerant of differences.
-Another woman in Texas remembers that her LDS congregation was banned from participating in a community-wide Christmas event and that non-Church members once barged into Sunday meetings shouting that Mormons were cult members and devil worshippers.
The reader will note, when comparing the above quotes with the below article, that the quotes originate from the MSM. Why would the MSM, a known enemy of Christianity, care if Christians consider Mormons a cult or not? I suggest that these quotes are really more of an attack on Christianity than some deep concern for Mormons. Notice how when Mormons talk family values the press fawns over them. When Christians do the same we are are intolerant of other lifestyles.
That being said, consider the above quotes. Christians who deny Mormons mainstream status are bigoted, intolerant, etc. But ask your self this: are Mormons not intolerant when they make the following claim: that Joseph Smith unearthed a book of golden plates from a New York hillside in 1827 with the help of an angel and translated hieroglyphics that detailed the true Christian faith.
So Mormons don't want to be Christians, but rather the "true Christian faith." Isn't that just a bit intolerant?
I suspect what is really going on here is that in reality the MSM sees Romney as a palatable Republican. They don't really care about Mormons, but are afraid of Cain and Perry.
Take a few minutes and scan the below and see what other nuggets jump out at you. There are more than a couple.
dragonblustar, you are surely correct in what you say.
However, you somewhat make my point for me. The issue for the left will not be Romney’s mormonism. It will be his usefulness/harmfulness quotient for the left. If it is deemed that he is unthreatening in the long run and that mean-spirited opposition to him more likely to damage the leftist brand, his mormonism will not be that much of an issue. The left is ultimately grounded in a godless, man-is-the-measure-of-all-things understanding of the world. It knows how to use, misuse, and abuse religion of every sort for its own purposes.
Besides which, at its heart, mormonism is not conservative. It is radically revisionist when it comes to society and government. Look at its early history and fundamental teachings (e.g. plural marriage, redistributionist economics, very undemocratic/representational government), much of which is concealed and toned down in our era. It is not hard to see where a Harry Reid can say - as he just did - that it is easier to be a Democrat and a good Mormon than to be a Republican and a good Mormon.
When was the last time the Mormons made statements disparaging any Christian faith or committing acts against any Christian faith?
__________________________________________
Check Post #123
The words on the plaque include:
“I ASKED WHICH OF THE SECTS WAS RIGHT AND WHICH I SHOULD JOIN. I WAS ANSWERED I MUST JOIN NONE OF THEM. THEY WERE ALL WRONG. THEY TEACH FOR DOCTRINE THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN”
Meanwhile that 2nd part of your question “committing acts against any Christian faith?”
The answer includes...Every time they knock on the door of a Christian...
Thank you for this list, which I will pass on to a neighbor who's wondering why people are fussing about Mitt being Mormon.
I'm wondering if it's supposed to be "ELESTIAL" or "CELESTIAL" here.
Well said. IMO, WFB is just a bomb-thrower and his posts are very anti-Christian.
Quite probably the latter.
Thanks for catching that typo!
JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?
JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?
JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?
JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!
JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.
JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!
JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.
JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.
JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?
JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)
JESUS: That's it.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: Nah - it was right.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.
JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.
JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!
JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?
JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....
JESUS: What did you say?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.
JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.
JESUS: No...
JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?
JESUS: Nope.
JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!
JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: No; it wasn't.
JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?
JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?
JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.
JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.
JOSEPH SMITH: But....
Quite probably the latter.
Maybe not!
HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):
Telestial - where unbelievers go
Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the
Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.
The few Mormons that I know, all seem to have some emotional mental instability going on, most likely prior to joining. They were in emotional need of “Petting/stroking”, so to speak, and the Mormons saw that weakness and were more than ready to fill the bill.
These people most likely never knew the Real Christ, so they were susceptible to anything that looked “GOOD”.
- - - - -
Regarding the fact that they don’t know the real Christ you are correct. I (like other LDS converts) thought we were Christians but were really CINOs.
Regarding mental instability, not quite so sure. Mormonism CAUSES instability, but they LDS missionaries target those going through ‘life changes’ (just married, new baby, death in family) because they are more easily converted. I was taught that methond in trainign for my LDS mission. So they do prey on the weak and uniformed.
However, once in Mormonism, the pressure to perform is so great that it often leads to other, more serious metnal issues. For example, depression is extremely high among Mormon women. Also there is no real forgiveness either...one of their prophets said the following...
Mankind has the ability to perfect himself and become an omniscient and omnipotent God (p.2).
No one can repent on a cross, nor in prison, nor in custody (p.167).
Forgiveness is cancelled on reversion to sin (p.169).
Discontinuance of sin must be permanent (p.176).
Keeping God’s commandments brings forgiveness (p.201).
Salvation by grace alone was originated by Satan (p.206).
Only by living all of the commandments can a Mormon be sure he is forgiven (p.208).
Personal perfection is an achievable goal (p.209).
The time to become perfect is now, in this mortality (p.210).
Forgiveness could take “centuries” and is granted based on a Mormon’s humility, sincerity, works, and attitudes (p.325).
The repentance which merits forgiveness requires the transgressor to reach the point where the very desire or urge to sin is “cleared out of his life” (pp.354-355).
The Miracle of Forgivenes by Spencer W. Kimball
As for how I left, that is a long complicated story and I am still working on paring down my testimony a bit. Short version, I was confronted by a Christian bookstore owner with the same methods you see people complain on here. He didn’t let up, he didn’t invite me to a church picnic, he kept pounding me with LDS sources and the Bible and eventually got me mad enough to prove him wrong, so I set out to prove Mormonism false, to prove what I had been told about anti-Mormons (that they hate Mormons, lie, twist quotes and make things up) only to find out after about a year of real research that it was the LDS church lying to me. There were other factors as well, but that was the biggie.
Coming to Christ came later. After I had been out about 6 months (really ‘inactive’, hadn’t had my name removed yet), I moved home from Utah. There, I called my good friend from preschool, jr. High and High school, a Christian boy (man) who had told me right after I converted to Mormonism, that even though we grew up together, he could no longer be friends with me because it hurt him to much to know I was going to Hell. That conversation stuck with me the entire time I was LDS and it hurt to lose my best friend over my conversion. So, when I no longer believed, I called him to tell him I had left. He asked to go to a political party with him, we got there and our candidate had already conceded so he took me to church (AWANA). They needed help every week so I volunteered to listen to kids recite Bible verses and that is where I learned about salvation by Grace through faith. I am now happily married (for 16 years) to that young man.
We moved to another state since then and the LDS missionaries don’t tract our town very often, but I keep praying they show up.
YES, it matters VERY much what someone believes about everything because it will affect everything they do.
- - - -
Exactly what I have been saying here for a long time against the cries of ‘Romeny’s Mormonism doesn’t matter’, YES IT DOES.
To me, what is a cult and what isn’t, comes down to the question of authority.
Protestants see the Bible alone as their highest authority. All who substitute something else as that highest authority are cults.
The RCC, of course, as everybody knows, see their RCC “traditions” as that highest authority, traditions which establishes the Papacy as that highest authority. It is not the Bible alone, Papists add their “traditions” with the Bible as their authority.
Modern Judaism is Talmudic and sees the Talmud (many include the Kabbalah) with the Old Testament as their highest authority.
Islam has their Koran, of course, as their highest authority.
Mormonism, very similar to Talmudism and Islam, has their writings of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, as their highest authority. Again, not the Bible alone, but the Bible with other writings.
A non-cultist, in my view, looks to the Bible alone as his highest authority. It is Mormonism’s authoritative “sacred” writings that renders them a cult of the first order.
I suppose those same people would just say, there are many roads to heaven, as long as you believe in something. yikes.
If Religious CULT does not matter, the next step will be ISLAM. Will people still say religion/a belief doesn’t matter?
I suppose those same people would just say, there are many roads to heaven, as long as you believe in something. yikes.
- - - - -
I had a guy on here just a few days ago although he says he’s a Christian, say that all roads lead to heaven and the Bible is the word of Man. When pressed, he wouldn’t give more detail just vague responses.
I have also seen many Freepers who say Mitt’s religion doesn’t matter, yet complain about our Muslim POTUS. Dissonance much?
I think you meant 'true'. ;^)
LOL. Yeah I did. Sigh. I’m a little under the weather today. :(
The RCC, of course, as everybody knows, see their RCC “traditions” as that highest authority, traditions which establishes the Papacy as that highest authority. It is not the Bible alone, Papists add their “traditions” with the Bible as their authority.
As a “Papist” myself, i know none of this to be true. The Papacy nor traditions are the highest authority. The highest authority is the revealed Word of God, whether written down as Scripture or orally taught by the Apostles.
i would be careful about saying “as everybody knows” and then making a fool of yourself.
let me leave with a question to meditate on, since the Bible does not contain an inspired table of contents, how do you know which books are Scripture and which are not if not by Catholic tradition?
Modern Judaism would take issue with what I said too. And their response would be similar to yours. They would say they believe in the “word of God,” meaning the Old Testament.
A Muslim would say he believes in the Old Testament. And Mormons say they believe in “the word of God.”
Sure they do, but the question is, is it their ONLY written authority? No, modern Judaism, Islam, and Mormonism have additional authoritative writings which they hold equal to, or in some cases, even superior to the Bible.
As to yourself, if there isn’t any different between Papists and Protestants, why the division between us? Obviously, it is because Protestants do not see all the stuff Papists believe in the Bible.
Such things as the body of Christ having to be in subjection to Papal Rome, Popes , Priests and Nuns, which cannot get married, Mariolatry, Rosary beads, purgatory, a plethora of pagan/Christian holidays, and so on.
Protestants don’t see any of this in the Bible. No problemo to the Papists, their authoritative “traditions” take care of all that. Which traditions are in effect on a par with the other forms of extra-Biblical authority I mentioned.
Not to mention Papists have a different Bible. To gain a sort of one-upmanship on the Protestants, they added the apocraphal books to theirs.
LOL, where to start???
first, you never answered my question on how you know which books are Scripture and which are not? why don’t you have the Gospel of Peter in your Bible? are you following the tradition of men?
as for the Papists having a different Bible, you are correct but you have your history wrong. The books you call the “apocrypha” were included from the very first canon put together by the Church in the 4th century. The Greek Septuigant ( the Bible of the Apostles ) contained these books. when the Protestants came along in the 16th century, they REMOVED these books from the Bible. every Bible for the previous 12 centuries contained these books, even the original King James Bible had them. so i am happy to give you this history lesson.....you did make me laugh with your comment on they were added to gain one upmanship on the Protestants, LOL!! so to follow your logic, the Protestants removed the books to try and one up the Church.
Hey, one church (the RCC, that’s what your screen name is getting at I presume, typically Papist), you may be right on the Apocrapha, I don’t know, haven’t put that much effort into it. However, the test Protestants generally use is, if something, say like your Apocraphal books, aren’t specifically quoted by Jesus or any of the NT writers, they do not belong in the Bible.
As to your other thing, that’s an old horse that’s been beat to death here on FR. And answered quite well by others in other threads, in my opinion. To summarize, your presumption is flat out false, must be one of those “traditions” you’ve had drilled into your head, and hold authoritative.
There was no such thing as the Papacy when the NT canon came into being. The Papacy came along centuries later and appropriated it as something they gave to the world. Baloney.
it’s obvious you haven’t put much effort into very much. may i suggest in the future you put some “effort” in checking your statements before you make a fool of yourself again. your “papist” friend.
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