Posted on 10/13/2011 5:52:58 PM PDT by Gamecock
I subscribe to a Mormon apologetic Newsletter titled FAIR (Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research).
Normally it falls into my junk email account and I don't even open it, but today I had a few minutes and scanned the latest offering and was stunned to see the hypocrisy of the authors. Please note the entire email is posted below.
This particular issue has a great deal of whining about those mean Christians who make the spurious claim that Mormons are not Christians, but are a cult.
A couple of examples:
-"Mormons are a cult" epithets into the national spotlight. In his "On Faith" commentary this week, Church Public Affairs managing director Michael Otterson suggests why people make such claims and shares his own experience of being labeled not Christian.
Calling Mormonism a cult is old hat, and the voters are yawning.
-Texas Gov. Rick Perry's minister ally Robert Jeffress might think Mitt Romney's church is a cult, but a new documentary on the presidency and Mormonism suggests that Romney could snag the nation's top job despite the religious feud between Christians.
-....the "cult" of Mormonism means that you raise a solid family, work hard, make money and do good for the greater community of mankind, then by all means pass the Kool-Aid.
-It seems just too petty and small for a country as big as America to have. America, as a melting pot of many cultures and many beliefs, is supposed to be more tolerant of differences.
-Another woman in Texas remembers that her LDS congregation was banned from participating in a community-wide Christmas event and that non-Church members once barged into Sunday meetings shouting that Mormons were cult members and devil worshippers.
The reader will note, when comparing the above quotes with the below article, that the quotes originate from the MSM. Why would the MSM, a known enemy of Christianity, care if Christians consider Mormons a cult or not? I suggest that these quotes are really more of an attack on Christianity than some deep concern for Mormons. Notice how when Mormons talk family values the press fawns over them. When Christians do the same we are are intolerant of other lifestyles.
That being said, consider the above quotes. Christians who deny Mormons mainstream status are bigoted, intolerant, etc. But ask your self this: are Mormons not intolerant when they make the following claim: that Joseph Smith unearthed a book of golden plates from a New York hillside in 1827 with the help of an angel and translated hieroglyphics that detailed the true Christian faith.
So Mormons don't want to be Christians, but rather the "true Christian faith." Isn't that just a bit intolerant?
I suspect what is really going on here is that in reality the MSM sees Romney as a palatable Republican. They don't really care about Mormons, but are afraid of Cain and Perry.
Take a few minutes and scan the below and see what other nuggets jump out at you. There are more than a couple.
You got that right! Can we PLEASE not fall for it again GOP? PLEASE???
brent13a wrote:
“While Pauline Christianity is FAR from what Jesus originally professed to his disciples, Mormonism is so beyond even Pauline Christianity that it’s indistinguishable from any pagan cult I’ve ever read about.”
FAR, huh? Care to expand on that?
who would fardels bear wrote:
“When was the last time the Mormons made statements disparaging any Christian faith or committing acts against any Christian faith?”
You are right. It has been quite awhile; perhaps even half a century.
Mormons used to decry and mock Christianity. John Taylor, the third Mormon president, was noted for his ability - while a missionary in Europe - to tear Christianity apart and mock the unreasonableness of a Triune God. Mormons used to denigrate and rail against the government of the United States of American and the various states in which they resided for evil-doing. They even fought a war with the United States in 1850’s. Mormons used to speak out defiantly in favor of plural marriage and its virtues, Brigham Young and John Taylor were lions in this fight. Mormons used to proclaim that there was only one way for a man to atone for abominable sin: to have his throat cut and spill his own blood in atonement for his sins.
Now they identify themselves with Christianity and proclaim they are offended when their Christianity is questioned. Now they are among the most loyal of Americans. Now they preach family values to everyone. Now they demand tolerance for the aberrant. In other words they have caved in to pressure on nearly everything that they held dear a century or more ago. What are we to make of this?
Well, let’s see. When I run into an individual who, under pressure, goes back on nearly everything he claimed to hold dear, what does this tell me about his principles?
So, “who would fardels bear,” I recognize the facticity of what you are saying. However, while it seems to inspire confidence in you, it simply makes me question all the more what is there when all the obfuscations have been peeled away. Is there any there there? I think not.
Nice try. But your argument doesn’t hold water.
Reaganaut, I have no doubt that you and your husband are both wise and kind. May you continue to so treat Mormon missionaries ... if you have the chance.
When was the last time the Mormons made statements disparaging any Christian faith or committing acts against any Christian faith?
____________________________________
When was the last time you read the disparaging words made against the Christian faith that Mormons chiseled IN STONE in Temple Square in Salt Lake City ??
Courtesy PING to Elsie, the keeper of the pic
Well, brent13a, your answer is very high on the passion index and very low on the verification index. Lots of assertions, no grounding of them in the extant sources.
Please realize that when you make such a sweeping statement as you did in the post to which I first responded, it should be backed up with some justification.
1) Jesus never labeled Himself a Christian.
OK, no argument. He didn’t. On the other hand, a Christian is by definition a follower of Christ. So ...
2) His disciples never labeled themselves as “christians.”
No, they didn’t. But did they profess themselves to be followers of Him who said He was “the way, the truth, and the life”? I think yes. So, if we label them followers of Christ, are we wrong? I think not.
3) Regarding the first gathering of Christians and what they would have labeled themselves.
First, see above. Then, no, they didn’t. But I don’t really think you can read their minds any better than I can. The bottom line is that they followed Him and professed Him. Show how that is wrong.
4) They were all jew or proselytes.
Yup. And then the followed the promised Messiah.
5) Jesus taught from the Torah/Tanakh.
Yup. And it testified of Him, and that all who would have life must come to Him, must be His followers. (John 5:39)
6) Christianity was wholly separate from Jesus’ disciples.
Well, brent13a, that assertion will take a bit of disproving. And I just don’t think you are up to it. But then no one else is either.
7) There was no collaboration between Jerusalem and Antioch.
I see. And the proof of that is?
What you say thereafter is a bit convoluted. So, I will refrain from responding.
Well, I did not label you “batsht crazy and a cultist.” You are the one who brought it up.
I will agree with you about Mormonism and Scientology, though perhaps for different reasons. And I would certainly choose different terminology to describe them.
I’d say Geza and Gerd are “full of it,” to use your colorful phrasing. They follow a long line of such “wise” men.
Just like on FR; after we have pointed ...out the errors of their respective confessions...
Well, to be honest, they DO believe that Jesus is devine and GOD in the flesh, but it's the EXTRA beliefs and rituals that puts them into the CULT definition.
Yeah; but THIS time he is not facing that formidable foe: John McCain!!
But their archeologists are HIGHLY rated...
...by UFO groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_and_the_Book_of_Mormon
...actually READ the Bible and can spot a HERESY when they see it!
Preface to the Book of Mormon 1830 Ed.
PREFACE.
TO THE READER—
As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by the evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated, by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi, which was an account abridged from the plates of Lehi, by the hand of Mormon; which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again—and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over again, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated, which ye have retained; and behold ye shall publish it as the record of Nephi; and thus I will confound those who have altered my words. I will not suffer that they shall destroy my work; yea, I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil. Wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, I have, through his grace and mercy, accomplished that which he hath commanded me respecting this thing. I would also inform you that the plates of which hath been spoken, were found in the township of Manchester, Ontario county, New-York.
THE AUTHOR.
Ya think?
The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.
1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.
2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.
3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired.
4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.
5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.
6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.
7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.
8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.
9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.
10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.
11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.
12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.
13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.
14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.
15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.
16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:
17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!
18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.
19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!
20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.
21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.
22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.
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