Posted on 07/02/2010 4:43:38 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
Well known and admired 108 year old Rabbi reveals the Messiah's name!
What novel ideas!
GOD SAID WHAT HE MEANT!
GOD MEANT WHAT HE SAID!
WHAT A SURPRISE!
I guess they must think that God mangles dictionaries, Bibles, histories, etc. like they do.
Sheesh.
/s
WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL DEAR HEART,
Am off to a church singles home group 4th share a dish.
THANKS TONS FOR YOUR EXCELLENT POINTS AND REFS.
I used to think that Preterists/REPLACEMENTARIANS WOULD COME UP WITH SOME argument(s) that were worth the bother. They never have. I’m still somewhat shocked by the shallowness and irrationality of their propositions and silly assertions.
Yet, we have to bother for the lurkers.
GiovannaNicoletta recommended a link in which is to found this statement:
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. (Zechariah 12:10)
(In the Hebrew language, this verse reveals an astonishing secret. After the phrase “They will look on me” … it contains two untranslated letters, an aleph and a tau. They are the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet. So the verse literally reads, “They will look on me, the Aleph and the Tau …” In Genesis 1:1 the same two Hebrew letters show up after the phrase “In the beginning, God” … So it reads “In the beginning God, the Aleph and the Tau” …
This statement is factually untrue. In both Zechariah 12:10 and Genesis 1:1 the “aleph” and “tav” (not “tau,” that would be Greek) are not what the author claims, not remotely. They spell a word, a word that is, yes, untranslated, but filled with meaning. The word is a preposition indicating that what follows is the definite direct object of the preceding verb. What the author of the article says about it is sheer nonsense.
This is a good example of destroying one’s argument by erroneous scholarship.
So are you denying the demonstrable historical reality that Jerusalem fell in 70 AD? Are you denying that Temple sacrifices have been finished once and for all? Are you denying that any of the physical seed of Abraham is capable of being a member of the Church?
OTOH, are you claiming that to deny Christ and return to animal sacrifices is pleasing to God? Are you suggesting that God wants Jews to be separate from the Church?
There’s not a shred of Scripture to say that HE did.
Don't you feel kind of stupid for making that statement? Since the Canon of Scripture was written before 70AD, it is rather obvious that they would not report on that which had not yet happened.
An angel would have been sufficient.
That is what I would expect Joseph Smith or any other garden variety heretic to say. St Paul specifically warned us to avoid "...an angel from heaven..." telling us a different gospel. Dispensationalism is, by definition, another Gospel.
so much even partial Preterist hogwash...
You are condemning the teachings of your own Church. Surely you must have more spiritual enlightenment than the Pope, and your insults and taunts are clearly words that are edifying.
I've never found Dr. Ice to be in Biblical error in any of his writings.
However, I have been treated to endless twisting and denial and allegorizing and redefining of Scripture by replacement theologians, preterists, amillennialists, and so forth and so on.
So you'll forgive me if I take the word of the writer who I have never found to be Scripturally wrong.
Actually, I am surprised that you would approach the Church's teachings as one would view a buffet table. If what comes out of the Vatican is mere opinion that one can freely choose to accept or discard, how is it that you can challenge a Protestant regarding their scepticism of certain Roman teachings and traditions?
“Yawn.”
Your link: http://www.bible-prophecy-today.com/2010/06/why-rebirth-of-israel-is-sign-of-end.html#axzz0sehetZgw
The author, identified as Jack Kelly at the beginning of the article, is simply, flatly, indisputably wrong on the point I just posted. Yawn all you want. He is wrong. I know how to assess his argument. Perhaps, you are helping me to assess yours.
“Jesus Christ will personally throw the Antichrist and the False Prophet into the Lake of Fire when he returns.
Nero committed suicide. So the Antichrist wasn’t Nero.”
You’re tying the two of them together. I’m not.
“...your beliefs match exactly those of a preterist.”
And you actually know what all my beliefs are because...?
You’ve decided I’m a “preterist” and so you feel as though you can ignore and condemn me now. Nice, tight logical, self-serving circle you’ve got there.
“Reacted reflexively”? Because I refuse to deny and discard Scripture and buy into a belief system that has no basis whatsoever in reality?”
No. Because you’ve decided that putting a label on people with whom you disagree, and then reacting in shock, horror, and condemnation of that label, is a bona fide substitute for real discussion. Your mind is completely closed to the truth and so you react like this - in a knee-jerk way - whenever someone presents an idea that challenges your beliefs.
And in that regard, you are no better than a jihadist.
“Did you not just make a reference to Nero and try to claim he was the Antichrist?”
No. You made that connection. I didn’t.
“Did God bring the Jews back from among the nations into their own land and their own nation which was reborn in 1948 in 70AD?”
It would be better if you actually answered the question I put to you, since your version of it is simply asinine and something I never wrote or suggested.
“And Jerusalem being destroyed has nothing to do with events that will occur right before Christ’s return...”
I never said it did. Like most people reacting reflexively to the issue, you read things into what’s written and don’t really care to have a civil discussion about it.
All your posts demonstrate is that you’re not a serious Bible student and that you don’t want your beliefs challenged.
As for the rest, it’s not even worth addressing.
Many of the people who criticize my posts and the contents of those posts have responded with some of the most bizarre, Godless, un-Scriptural man-made nonsense I've ever had the misfortune to encounter.
Many of the people who criticize my posts fancy themselves to be sophisticated, superior, educated bastions of Bible expertise when all they really are are deceived, ignorant deniers of the Word of God and expose themselves as the fools who will put man-made traditions, man-created writings, and their own human logic and reason above God and the Scripture that He has written.
Knock yourself out "assessing his argument". I'm not impressed. And like I said before, I will take the word of those who do not arrogantly elevate themselves above God and whose writing reflects the reality of events on the world stage in our generation over those who will deny Scripture in their lame attempts to validate their man-created beliefs.
“Evangelicals overwhelmingly favor experience and emotionalism over knowledge and wisdom.”
That certainly seems to be the case in the responses I’ve received in this thread, so far, especially when it comes to the “emotionalism” part.
“But when they see the Abomination of Desolation, a man standing in the Temple telling people he’s God, things will begin to get serious fast and the countdown will begin on the most terrifying period of time in the history of man.”
As noted in the links I posted, the “abomination of desolation” were the “graven images” of Caesar being marched into Jerusalem that signaled its destruction was near.
Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD. The next time Jerusalem is threatened by armies that surround it, God says He will destroy them with fire from heaven. Read Ezekiel 37-38 to know what Israel’s real future is.
Romans 10:9-13 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
If a person is saved and the rapture happens as you believe it will, I don't see where the saved person will be able to “choose to stay behind”...even if they don't expect the rapture to happen.
Here is the exchange with your exact words:
GN:
“Jesus Christ will personally throw the Antichrist and the False Prophet into the Lake of Fire when he returns.
Nero committed suicide. So the Antichrist wasn’t Nero.”
You:
Yes there was. His name was Nero. Read Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. Again, the word “world” means something different today than it did in Jesus’ time. Back then, it meant “Roman Empire.”
So who tied the two together? It wasn't me!
And you actually know what all my beliefs are because...? You’ve decided I’m a “preterist” and so you feel as though you can ignore and condemn me now. Nice, tight logical, self-serving circle you’ve got there.
I'm going by what you've written. If you don't like being associated with the preterist garbage you write, then don't write it.
No. Because you’ve decided that putting a label on people with whom you disagree, and then reacting in shock, horror, and condemnation of that label, is a bona fide substitute for real discussion. Your mind is completely closed to the truth and so you react like this - in a knee-jerk way - whenever someone presents an idea that challenges your beliefs.
Take responsibility for what you believe. If your beliefs match those of a preterist, then own it. I didn't come up with the label "preterist" - that has been in use long before I was born. If you don't like that label, then change your beliefs.
And I didn't react in shock, I reacted in contempt.
“Did you not just make a reference to Nero and try to claim he was the Antichrist?”
No. You made that connection. I didn’t.
I've done you the favor of reposting what you wrote. Go back and refresh your memory.
It would be better if you actually answered the question I put to you, since your version of it is simply asinine and something I never wrote or suggested.
Again, here is what you wrote:
Were the Jews dispersed throughout the world or not?
My response to you was an answer to your question. You take the preterist position that the dispersing of the Jews in 70AD was fulfillment of prophecy which then means that the prophecies God gave us for the time of His return have already been fulfilled.
My response was the answer. The Jews have been regathered into their own nation, which was reestablished in 1948, which was not fulfilled in 70AD but in our generation. And only a preterist would call actual, factual, fulfillment of end-time prophecy asinine.
“And Jerusalem being destroyed has nothing to do with events that will occur right before Christ’s return...”
I never said it did. Like most people reacting reflexively to the issue, you read things into what’s written and don’t really care to have a civil discussion about it.
And, yet again, here is the exchange:
GN:
“Since none of it was fulfilled in 70AD, then yes, it’s end-time.”
You:
Was Jerusalem destroyed in 70 AD or not?... If so, then you have to explain how the many prophecies surrounding this one event were not fulfilled. Good luck! LOL!
And, yet again, an instance of you attempting to claim that the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD was a fulfillment of end-time prophecy and therefore all end-time prophecy was fulfilled in 70AD.
If you at least take ownership of your own words, you won't lose as much credibility.
All your posts demonstrate is that you’re not a serious Bible student and that you don’t want your beliefs challenged.
This is coming from someone who actively denies reality and thinks that everything that shows us Christ's return is near has already happened.
Don't flatter yourself. There isn't much worse Biblical ignorance than believing that the Book of Revelation happened already in 70AD.
Who said that a person must be correct on his understanding of end time prophecy in order to be saved?
And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. Luke 2:1 (NKJV)
The same Greek word "oikoumene", which is used in Matthew 24:14 (translated world) is used in Luke 2. So tell me, when Caesar sent forth a proclamation that "all the world" shoukd be registered, was Caesar Augustus referring to those living in North, Central and South America? Was he referring to those living in China, Russia or Japan???
No: the decree went forth throughout the entire ROMAN EMPIRE because THAT'S WHAT CAESAR CONTROLLED!
That's what "oikoumene" means in Luke 2. It means the same thing in Matthew 24: the ROMAN EMPIRE: that's what "all the world" meant to the people living in Jesus' time!
Once you begin to understand that, the rest of the truth will begin to fall into place for you.
If you knew where WE ARE located in God’s Word, you would actually have some truth regarding the Rapture, Tribulation, and Christ’s 2nd Coming.
“Who said that a person must be correct on his understanding of end time prophecy in order to be saved?”
LOL! Playing the part of the “innocent” when you and Quix have been throwing words like “heresy” and “devilish” and “lies” around to describe views (and, by implication, those who hold them) with which you disagree.
Speaking as a “sophisticated, superior, educated bastion of Bible expertise” who is numbered among the “deceived, ignorant deniers of the Word of God” who puts “man-made traditions, man-created writings, and their own human logic and reason above God and the Scripture that He has written” ... and there is the point, GiovannaNicoletta, THERE IS THE POINT! I told you what God has written, in Hebrew, through His chosen instruments, Moses and Zechariah. You chose to respond with, and I quote, “yawn.”
I ask, who is arrogant?
“If you knew where WE ARE located in God’s Word, you would actually have some truth regarding the Rapture, Tribulation, and Christ’s 2nd Coming.”
I do, but as I have been labeled a “preterist” here, I hardly doubt anyone would give attention to my perspective anyway.
That’s the danger of labeling someone with such invective before any real discussion has occurred. That’s how the brown shirts shouted down their opposition, too.
Please tell me where you think WE ARE located in God’s Word today.
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